Systems..

[daybrown]

Ever get the feeling you are living on some kind of manipulated reality, a Matrix or Holodeck?

It seems like a cliff hanger; every day nearly, you find another reason for the whole system to go to hell, but somehow, no matter how bad it looks, how asinine and insane the leadership and sheeple are, it just keeps muddling along.

Like the Wizard of Oz it seems like there must be a guy behind a curtain somewhere, but I can find the curtain. And like in Apocalypse Now, when asked if he didnt like the method, the reporter said he didnt see a method.

What could possibly be the purpose? Dont tell me its "God's Plan", I can come up with a better plan than this.

[brokenhead]

Like the Wizard of Oz it seems like there must be a guy behind a curtain somewhere, but I can find the curtain.

d.b. Did you mean you can't find the curtain?

[|read|]

Things look a little less puzzling when you realize the leadership is not asinine. Possibly insane, assuredly psychopathic, but quite brilliant. The leadership's visible puppets are asinine, but then puppets generally are - that's the price one pays for a curtain. You become one of the sheeple when you think you're too smart to have been manipulated. The tragedy of game theory is that the winning player is a brilliant psychopath. Such is my cynical view of politics/primate dominance dynamics.

In another sense, the curtain is woven into our economic system. I'm not just talking about capitalism, I'm talking about our currency itself, and the web of loans and interest that underlie it all - much more practical than pods of pink goo.

In light of this, the fact mankind manages to muddle along is nothing short of inspiring - it takes a healthy animal to survive leeches. I believe we even, dare I say it, advance. I attribute this mainly to scientific progress. Tyrants come and go, democracies come and go, but technology accumulates.

[|read|]

By the way, sometimes I do feel like I'm in a simulation - the people who pass my window come from a finite pool of stock extras, ironic turns of events occur more frequently than probability would predict, etc. I attribute this mainly to selection bias, and caffeine. :p

[Nick]

There is no curtain, no master plan, no man behind the curtain, and no matrix. What you see is the manifestation of the ignorance of man-kind. Sometimes it may seem like there's someone running the show, but aren't all animals fairly predictable after you observe them long enough? Trust me, there is nobody behind the wheel. Humanity is an unconscious machine controlled by nothing other than what Nature has programed it to do. The rise and fall of empires is something that has happened many times through out history and I'm sure there are many more to come. Alas, Nature has also programed her creations, which include man, with a very strong survival instinct, so no matter how bad things appear to get he tends to find a way to claw his way out of whatever mess he dug himself into and produce more offspring.

[Carl G]

Ever get the feeling you are living on some kind of manipulated reality, a Matrix or Holodeck?

Yes, of course. Manipulated on the physical/psychic level, without doubt, by the ruling class, who are presumably ruled themselves, but by whom, who knows. And if beyond that, reality is governed on the Universal Level, who knows?

It seems like a cliff hanger; every day nearly, you find another reason for the whole system to go to hell, but somehow, no matter how bad it looks, how asinine and insane the leadership and sheeple are, it just keeps muddling along.

Yes. One thing I noticed, looking back on the past year, for instance, there were no actual news events. Nothing of real significance happened -- or was reported -- during the entire year. Sure, the airwaves were full of talking heads and loud pictures every day, but that was all repetitive small stuff: wars, crime, and politics as usual.

Like the Wizard of Oz it seems like there must be a guy behind a curtain somewhere, but I can find the curtain. And like in Apocalypse Now, when asked if he didnt like the method, the reporter said he didnt see a method.

It is possible to see the curtain, and even to see, at least partially, behind it. Enough to know it exists. And that there is more than one layer involved.

What could possibly be the purpose? Dont tell me its "God's Plan", I can come up with a better plan than this.

How would you know? How could you possibly know, to compare or say?

[daybrown]

Confusion must be a big place. There's room for all of us. And ya, I know there's no curtain at any one place; its more like a curtain of fog, all around us; we can never see very far in any direction. But if lost, at least we seem to have plenty of company here.

As to what I know of the entire "projected matrix", as Saint Ramprasad called it, there's really no way I can add to what anyone else knows, or what they can convince me. My mind seems to be programmed in assembly while most seem to run on C+, or C++, and few poor souls get by on Cobol. We have language problems, and quite literally cannot think in the same ways.

I doubt anything we say here will clear the foggy curtain, but your penetrating insights are entertaining while we wait for the fog to lift.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Ever get the feeling you are living on some kind of manipulated reality, a Matrix or Holodeck?

Sure, as someone once said: as above, so below. Our mind is tempted, if tuned in some way, to witness unexpected and unexplained links between what would be normally understood as totally unrelated events. The question remaining: what is the message here for me? There the wacky interpretations often start coming.

Interesting is that the word matrices links to pregnant animal, source, womb and mother, the maternal. So to wake up (from the matrix) could be said to equal being born - into the 'holy life' as opposed to the dream of becoming.

It seems like a cliff hanger; every day nearly, you find another reason for the whole system to go to hell, but somehow, no matter how bad it looks, how asinine and insane the leadership and sheeple are, it just keeps muddling along.

The muddling along on the edge of the abyss, that's what most of us call life - 'living on the edge'. That's the only place life (becoming) actually happens. Memories are echoes, the future is imaginary. And yes, it's quite a bloody, messy, screaming affair when you add it all up.

Like the Wizard of Oz it seems like there must be a guy behind a curtain somewhere, but I can find the curtain. And like in Apocalypse Now, when asked if he didnt like the method, the reporter said he didnt see a method.

There's only curtain, a wilderness of methods, the question is if we can find the one that is used by ourselves the most.

What could possibly be the purpose? Dont tell me its "God's Plan", I can come up with a better plan than this.

There's happening something and there appears to be a ring to it, a shard of a song to the ear of imagination. What's the purpose of songs? Steer clear of the Sirens though.

[DHodges]

Yes. One thing I noticed, looking back on the past year, for instance, there were no actual news events. Nothing of real significance happened -- or was reported -- during the entire year. Sure, the airwaves were full of talking heads and loud pictures every day, but that was all repetitive small stuff: wars, crime, and politics as usual.

You know something big is coming, though, right?

[Carl G]

What? Economic collapse?

Surely you're not referring to the U.S. Elections...

Debatable whether that would qualify, as the effect will not be any significant policy changes.

[DHodges]

What? Economic collapse?

I don't know what.

Could be economic collapse, could be ecological disaster, could be that a bunch of relatively small things happen to go wrong at the same time.

No, I'm not talking about the election, but a major political disruption is a possibility as well. Wars, and rumors of wars. Plagues and famines. Governments fall.

Could be I'm wrong, and things will stagger on more or less as they have been. Hell, I hope I'm wrong; it's not all that much more than intuition.

But I'm getting ready.

[|read|]

When Bush invades Iran, suspends elections due to national emergency, and appoints himself "God's Guardian of Homeland Security" for as long as his war on terror lasts (indefinitely), then I'm bailing on this country before they close the borders and declare martial law. But that seems highly unlikely.

[daybrown]

Well if the elections are now rigged by electronic voting machines or whatever, what diff does it make if the electorate is no longer rational? The real question is- whether the leadership, by whatever means it takes power... is rational.

Bush and the Neocons clearly were not. While the nation has had bad leadership before, I dont see that it ever had leadership this bad. Bush mite like to maintain power by any means necessary, but I dont see that he and the Neocons are really competent enuf to do that.

Where did all those middle class people, who moved out of foreclosed houses, go? Wherever they went, it was away angry. They wont be inclined to put up with Bush trying to hold on to power. Already the CIA looks like it has figured that out, and thereby came out with an 'intelligence report' to challenge what Bush has been trying to push.

[snow bunny]

Maybe you are talking about when the White House becomes the Black House? An ominous day for mankind, no doubt. And, the only one who can save us is Hillary Clinton!! Yikes!!

[daybrown]

Maybe you are talking about when the White House becomes the Black House? An ominous day for mankind, no doubt. And, the only one who can save us is Hillary Clinton!! Yikes!!

I dont know. Its certainly not upta us, but what the corporate mass media spinmeisters decide. They will tell the sheeple who to vote for.

Now, if there is economic crisis, and more middle class people go into bankruptcy and forclosure, then that will get them off the couch and outside to have a look at what is going on. They will be pissed, and willing to listen to anyone promising revenge, be that Hillary, Ron Paul, or you.

GW Bush has expanded the powers of the presidency such that Hillary, with the backing of a Democratic congress, could act more decisively, for good or ill, than any of the others. With the Internet, the global economy, and data analysis, the range of economic outcomes between now and the election is vastly wider than ever before. i dont see how any candidate can present a plan that will look good under all the various effects of rising oil and commodity prices, falling dollar and incomes...

[snow bunny]

Who is Ron Paul?? He's not a candidate, is he? I think you're right, I am a better candidate than someone I've never heard of. Of course, I don't want to be president. I just want to be rich. I am taking my time with that, however, because It's not as simple as saying I want to be rich, and then becoming rich. I suppose the system that is in place allows me the freedom to become rich on my own time, or merely to dream about the millions I will never really possess. You never know, though, I could get lucky with some scheme or other.

[brokenhead]

What? Economic collapse?

I don't know what.

Could be economic collapse, could be ecological disaster, could be that a bunch of relatively small things happen to go wrong at the same time.

No, I'm not talking about the election, but a major political disruption is a possibility as well. Wars, and rumors of wars. Plagues and famines. Governments fall.

Could be I'm wrong, and things will stagger on more or less as they have been. Hell, I hope I'm wrong; it's not all that much more than intuition.

But I'm getting ready.

How do you get ready?

[daybrown]

How do you get ready? You mite start with Jared Diamond's "Collapse", which outlines several examples of catostrophic collapse. There are some common characteristics seen in history; altho its a moot point how to apply those lessons. But a few to consider.

Systems are stable so long as the resource base is expanding. But what power elites have always done, seen in both Oriental and Occidental history as well as Diamond's examples, as the resources become more limited... rather than cutting back to buy time to look for better management, they actually increase their exploitation of all lower classes so that the perks they enjoy can keep on increasing. And thereby give the impression that progress continues.

As the ability of the lower classes to cope declines because of the increased exploitation and decreased assets in their hands, they engage in magical thinking; thus we see fundies speak of "the Rapture", l kinds of whacko political demagogues with rigid ideologies, and iincreased reliance on divination- Tarot, astrology, runes, or trance states. That often involve psychotropics.

But after outlining several collapses, Diamond spends a little time on those areas which adapt and recover most quickly. Some of the criteria that come to mind, in no particular order, but which are synergistic:
1- homogeneous population. Where there are minorities, demagogues tend to arise blaming them; Without any convenient scapegoats, people pull together to find common solutions.
2- Forested terrain with small farms. Timber and firewood are easy to manage with local resources. Small farms are not so elegantly tweaked for production and 'make do' with whatever is available, quickly adapting to meet local demand.
3- low population density, as above, means that locals have more per capita to work with.

While most often we think of the total collapse of empire, there are examples where the great power shifts to some other location. The smart money gets out early. By the time Rome fell, it'd already moved to Constantinople, and Rome was just an empty shell. In China, you could always tell when a palace coup was coming because the call girls left town, many to return to the Silk Road city states beyond the Jade Gate. If you can, get to know the call girls.

And of course, the sages, both East and West, always say to live in obscure locations. Have a garden. Live a modest life without any sign of silver, gold, or other such portable assets. Be a poor target. The Slavs were really good at that, pioneering in some forest, a no-man's land between greater forces. Both the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic nations regarded the Slavs living in the boonies kindly, thinking that were an enemy army to come, they'd see the Slavs fleeing twards them letting them know.

Clausewitz:"When confronted with steep forested land, take your army around it." A principle military thinkers today still understand. So- one way to 'get ready', is to have a place in that kind of terrain. Then too, just check the commodity prices: corn, wheat, rice, soybeans... As a system become unstable basic food prices rise. This has already caused riots in Mexico. If you have a garden, then you can create your own supply, and with proper management, be able to meet the increasing demand for "organic' produce now to augment your income, but if the kind of systemic collapse seen so often in the postings, you'll still get to eat.

Mite buy a 12 guage pump and a few boxes of "00 buckshot". I'm not a good shot, but those who are, all know the sound of a 12 guage being cocked, which tends to concentrate the mind. i also have brewing equipment and a still; no matter how bad it gets, nobody ever burns down a distillery or hassles the brewmeisters. In the meantime, I use the equipment to make herbal tinctures.

Surf the "German Commission E Monograph on herbs" to see hundreds of scientific double blind studies, which prove the therapeutic effect of scores of herbs. Many of which I grow. if the economy keeps on muddling thru, then I'll sell the herbs and tinctures to the growing 'organic' market. If not, I can use most of the herb beds to grow my own food.

I dont recommend it, but 19th century Ireland showed how to support a family on a mere 1/20th of an acre. The tubers wont be a balanced diet, but will give you the carbs to work up more ground. Properly managed, 1/4 acre per person will provide a fully balanced diet in the temperate zone indefinately. But if you do not start growing a garden now, you wont know how later.

It aint that hard, even in an apartment, to start plants in an inside window box now for transplanting outside in the spring. Lotsa stuff besides marijuanna can be grown inside or in gallon buckets.

Then too, Diamond mentions the rich building starter castles and mcmansions in his Bitterroot Valley of MT. I see the same in my neck of Ozark woods. This investment stimulates the local economies far more than the old line cattle business ever did.

You dont wanna live in CA. Pat Roberton reports in http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e19078.htm that the state has a $3 billion deficit this year, and a $9 billion coming in 2009. Arkansas had a $919 million surplus that the gov called a special session to deal with last spring, and is now working with the legislature on how to lower taxes so they wont have too much money next year. YMMV, getting 'ready' depends greatly on where you are.

i dont really know if the smart money leaving the great power centers is coming to Arkansas or not, but it is a pattern that is consistent with other examples of empire in decline. It may also be because the southern Ozarks meet all of the criteria cited for rapid recovery by Diamond. The opening of the Fayetteville shale gas field, which already produces 1% of the total US consumption of Natural gas, prolly has something to do with it also. When you factor in all the hydropower and the nuke at Russellville, you can see the state could rapidly become entirely energy independent of the global economy.

i dont really know if thats why transnationals are investing in the medium size towns here either. But it has resulted in a net increase in manufacturing jobs. A high tech strip city has also emerged along I-540 from Fayetteville (pop 50,000) on up to the MO border, which now sees a net immigration of engineers and professionals from both coasts and Asia.

"Getting ready" dont havta mean outfitting a bunker. Living in a community with a diverse local resource base to support civil administration and law enforcement is much more secure. You havta sleep sometime. Knowing how to work with any of those local resources means full employment.

[DHodges]

I just want to be rich.

You have a long, long way to go.

[DHodges]

How do you get ready? You mite start with Jared Diamond's "Collapse", which outlines several examples of catostrophic collapse.

I agree that this is a good starting point; the first step is go get an idea of what it is you might be getting ready FOR. I also just watched "An Inconvenient Truth." I would also recommend the movie "Innocents Betrayed." Actually I agree with most of what you said, with a few minor points:

Mite buy a 12 guage pump and a few boxes of "00 buckshot". I'm not a good shot, but those who are, all know the sound of a 12 guage being cocked, which tends to concentrate the mind.

I am of the loosely-held position that an AR-15 might be better to start with than a shotgun, and a pistol should come before that. But I don't know enough to have a strong opinion on it.

i also have brewing equipment and a still; no matter how bad it gets, nobody ever burns down a distillery or hassles the brewmeisters. In the meantime, I use the equipment to make herbal tinctures.

In the US, there is actually a strong tradition of hassling distilleries. We had that prohibition thing, and we still have the ATF (now apparently known as the BATFE). However, making your own beer is legal, and that's something I intend to research and attempt soon. (Securing food, drinking water and shelter are obviously a higher priority.)

"Getting ready" dont havta mean outfitting a bunker.

Depends on exactly what you are getting ready for. For short-term emergencies (atomic attack or earthquake, for instance), an underground bunker could be a very good choice (but a significant investment.) It can also be very well hidden, making a good storage place for various types of goods.

Living in a community with a diverse local resource base to support civil administration and law enforcement is much more secure. You havta sleep sometime. Knowing how to work with any of those local resources means full employment.

This is something I am just learning about. I'm thinking I should find out if the local fire department is volunteer, and if so, if I can help out in some way.

[snow bunny]

I just want to be rich.

You have a long, long way to go.

Yeah, no shit. That's why I'm trying so hard to get there.

[daybrown]

I just want to be rich.

You have a long, long way to go.

Yeah, no shit. That's why I'm trying so hard to get there.

That's not the way to do it in uncertain times. when the number of ambiguous variables increases, that also increases opportunity to become rapidly empowered if you are lucky and/or can see a little further thru the fog produced by the media machines.

The world's richest man, Wm Gates, didnt get that way trying hard. While being visionary enuf to see the use of the Disk Operating System when he bought it, he was also ruthless & unethical, and had he not paid enuf lawyers, would've done jail time. He was also lucky in that the IBM honchos only came to see him after being stupidly stiffed by the owners of CPM software.

You lucky?

[rpl]

daybrown,

My mind seems to be programmed in assembly while most seem to run on C+, or C++, and few poor souls get by on Cobol. We have language problems, and quite literally cannot think in the same ways.

One can learn both. Why not?

[snow bunny]

That sounds like you are saying, "Are you feeling lucky, punk?" like you think you're Clint Eastwood or something!!

No, I definitely don't want to be like Bill Gates. I think he's a tool!!

I don't know how I'm going to make my millions, but I'll probably just put a bunch of golden monopoly bills in my pocket and feel like I'm rich. Then I can go to Africa and pass those out to the lepers, and they'll feel like they're rich too. Wouldn't that make me just as good as any other philanthropist?

[daybrown]

daybrown,

My mind seems to be programmed in assembly while most seem to run on C+, or C++, and few poor souls get by on Cobol. We have language problems, and quite literally cannot think in the same ways.

One can learn both. Why not?

I have enuf trouble trying to be proficient in English and assembly; not that there are not those who can master many languages. And therefore the thot forms in each. I've also studied enuf Latin and Hebrew to see some of these difficulties, but also realize I'm not smart enuf to master them.

Most dont even handle English that well, and the power elite is trying to promote the use of Spanish. This allows them to say one thing to an audience in Spanish, and another to an audience in English, without either group realizing they are being shafted. Power flows away from those who use language poorly twards those who can master the most languages.

Ultimately, this divide and control policy backfires into tribalism and balkanization, threatening the dissolution of the Untied States of Denial. People who cant communicate in a common language cant reach consensus, and either go their own ways, or resort to genocide.