Original Thinking

[DHodges]

He's back under yet another user name...

I'll try, and try - until I get it! A this point there doesn't seem to be any way around it!

You still seem to miss the irony in trying to get other people to teach you how to think for yourself.

[TheSourceCode]

You missed a few:)

[brokenhead]

Yep, getting rid of attachments isn't a means towards self-knowledge, but in fact, it is a consequence of it.

You can, however, get rid of the things you are attached to as a means towards self-knowledge. The attachments linger like a phantom limb - that could even be what a phantom limb is. It's difficult but not impossible to dissolve the attachments without shedding the actual things. This is the essence of the Fourth Way popularized by Ouspensky about a hundred years ago in response to the perceived needs of a society about to enter the Modern Age.

[Dan Rowden]

In my opinion shedding the thing to which one is attached is one of those nifty band-aid measures. How does that deal with the essential nature of the attachment and the suffering it necessarily brings and the delusion it is necessarily based in? It's like avoidance therapy. May as well sit in your bedroom and never do anything.

[Dan Rowden]

It doesn't resolve anything. The basis for such attachments remains and therefore just gets directed elsewhere. Avoiding or casting off the objects of attachments that don't work for us is just an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It only seems like it helps short term. If it's the best one can do, then fair enough, but it has no philosophical value.

[Shahrazad]

Dan,

Avoiding or casting off the objects of attachments that don't work for us is just an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Not quite. If we give up an attachment that is causing us immense suffering (for ex., attachment to romance) and replace it with one that causes only the smallest forms of suffering (for ex., attachment to posting at cyber boards), one has done a lot more than rearrange deck chairs. One has got rid of suffering, or at least reduced it to a very tolerable level. This is the purpose of life for me [maximize profits, minimize costs], and the fact that it has no philosophical value does not matter.

-

[Laird]

TheSourceCode: Oh...I see. Sometimes I can't help but think that we're all mind-readers. Mind-readers? Heh, it's amazing how two definitions connected to the same term or word can be interpreted in a whole variety of different ways. Different meanings, whether intentional or not. A person can be thinking something totally different then the other and yet honestly come up with the same clump of words.

Dan: Good point. I hope Laird read that paragraph.

Yup, I read it. I'm curious to know what significance you think it should have to me. Would you please explain?

[Dan Rowden]

What's your working hypothesis as to why I would have seen that as significant relative to your "satire"?

[Laird]

Ah, that's the clue that I needed - you're relating it to my satire, rather than, say, to how I interpret your philosophy or simply as a general concept. My working hypothesis then would be that it has something to do with why you consider my satire to be an insult, but exactly what that something might be eludes me.

[tooyi]

True Lotus

Seeing,
without doubt,
it is impossible.

All ways,
reaching,
from the mud.

[Marc]

Generalization, in my view, is terrible advice. Each thing or problem or whatever has its own truth that is separate and the same as others, but the way that it is separate is just as important. Generalizing leads to false conclusions in my book.

Well at least one generalisation holds either way. Generalising, perhaps others do too.

It's all connected and it's endless. One problem when resolved leads to another and the other to another just like a puzzle: 1 four-sided square piece, leads to 4 others and those lead too...12 more and so on and so forth. Another thing is memory. Not everything is remembered, so this is were some sort of shortcut comes in, such as: mental pictures and weird symbols. So... when you say philosophy is building from the ground up...How did you do it?

Well technically it's eight if you keep them connected, so be optimistic. That's why building from ground up is better. When you grasp an important enough truth it will never escape your memory.

Before you start building, you should understand the tools you are going to use. Don't be afraid of looking at the buildings of others.

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
-Isaac Newton

By original thought do you mean what is perceived as original thought or your original thoughts? The latter is common, the former rare.

I would recommend reading Euclid's "Elements" first. It's not philosophy but it has the "building from the ground up" mentality. Even if you just read the first short book it would be benificial. If you enjoy it, then it may make you more appreciative of building from the ground up.

I think that the ego must be trained before it can be vanquished. Often, the pursuit of truth is begun due to the ego, to attachments, etc. Gradually, as the desire for truth becomes objective rather than subjective, the ego is slowly trained to obedience until it disappears completely.

Which do you love more ego-trips or truth? If you love truth more, why do you relent? If you love ego-trips more, why do you seek truth?

You cannot serve two masters. What you must remember is that before you serve truth you must serve no masters at all.

"He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."
- St Matthew 10:39

If you read all the books in the world but do not let go of the ego, you've done the equivalent of testing the water with your feet. If you leave the ego though, it's the equivalent of diving from a great height, it may take a while but eventually you will find the water. The process of slowly lessening the egos grip on you is entering the water in the normal manner.

The first method lasts eternity, the second can occur in a lifetime, the third if you're lucky will occur in your lifetime too.

[sagerage]

Right, a good solid understanding of the basics is key.