"...Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment"

[maestro]

This is actually possible. The person being "sat in" would have to allow it, of course.

Since consciousness is all where does the question of "person being sat in would have to allow it" occur? Does one ask permission from ones hand whether it would like to move before moving it.

You may be allowing someone right now. It's very common. But don't fear; there's no judgement or control.

You are talking as if you are "sitting" inside me!

[divine focus]

This is actually possible. The person being "sat in" would have to allow it, of course.

Since consciousness is all where does the question of "person being sat in would have to allow it" occur? Does one ask permission from ones hand whether it would like to move before moving it.

Consciousness is you. Everything involving you is allowed by you.

You may be allowing someone right now. It's very common. But don't fear; there's no judgement or control.

You are talking as if you are "sitting" inside me!

lol No, I'm not quite that pure, yet. At least, not this focus of me.

[clyde]

In response to the thread's subject line:

It is from the experience of naked reality (suchness), reality as it is without the adornment of beliefs and concepts, that applying sound reason and logic causes understanding and wisdom to arise. But one does not cause that experience of naked reality by applying reason and logic, the naked reality is the source of reason and logic, and reason and logic are the rules for describing the functioning of the naked reality that causes understanding and wisdom to arise. How then? How to cause that experience of naked reality? The answer is clear: remove ALL adornments, including the adornments of beliefs and concepts, and the adornments of reason and logic.

clyde

[tooyi]

Almost good.

So, you expect that after plowing the field you can go home expecting a crop of wheat in a month or two?

I think something else will grow.

[clyde]

A nice metaphor, but . . . if you have an expectation, that is an adornment.

[tooyi]

Yes, but instead of having whatever, you'll have wheat.

[clyde]

A farmer will plow the field and sow wheat, will expect wheat, and will have wheat.

What will you sow?

[tooyi]

Harvest is over. Winter is nigh.

[clyde]

Avoidance is high. Exchange is over.

[tooyi]

Avoidance is high. Exchange is over.

You are very competetive but you will never get to the heart of a metaphor if you always equate it to a game. You maintain some sphere of incredulity that will keep you in a world of games but will also forever insulate you from the actual meaning of the metaphor. If you didn't see it at that very moment you can not see it after either, no matter what. Instead of seeing mere opportunity you always tend to a challenge. That challenge exists only in you.

At the same time you are not taking what was said seriously enough, and at the same time you assert that something else is so seriously important that it must be maintained on the expense of everything else. Read again. By not being serious about something X you will insist on something Y, seriously. It is hard to take you up on your offer when you are not being sincere.

"Lightning flashes, Sparks shower, In one blink of your eyes, You have missed seeing."

It has the literal meaning.
It has the popular meaning.
It has the actual meaning.
Then it will also have all the meanings that you need to topple over it.

It is surprising to see how people can read verse after verse of old writings without ever getting to the meaning. Why read any of them, at all, if not going all the way? What is it that you need before you can be without pretense? Can you imagine what it would be like? What would everything about you be without it?

[mikiel]

Cosmic consciousness manifests as the whole cosmos, It's body, so to speak. This is Awareness Itself, One in all.

I think you have redefined the concepts consciousness and awareness to mean the whole universe.
If that is so then the statement the universe is the whole universe one in all, is a tautology, isn't it.

Anyhow if you arbitrarily redefine words then there is a lot of potential for confusion. Since you have redefined consciousness to be the whole. What would you call :the phenomenon wherein an animal perceives its surroundings through a mental picture. I was referring to this as consciousness, this is also the conventional usage, when we say a man is unconscious simply implies that the mental perception of surroundings is gone.

I am speaking of the "Ultimate Reality and the Path to Enlightenment" here.
Cosmic Consciousness is as above. Individual awareness is almost always focused on content, "the surroundings" as you say or one's concepts, sensations, whatever. Awareness Itself is the same consciousness in all individuals. *What* one is *aware of* ... is mostly the usual familiar things, as stated. Transcending these *objects in awareness" is this Omnipresent, Cosmic Consciousness.
Meditation is the "practice" of such transcendence. Eventually, through such practice, one awakens into this Cosmic Consciousness realizing out unity in One Identity.
mikiel

[mikiel]

In response to the thread's subject line:

It is from the experience of naked reality (suchness), reality as it is without the adornment of beliefs and concepts, that applying sound reason and logic causes understanding and wisdom to arise. But one does not cause that experience of naked reality by applying reason and logic, the naked reality is the source of reason and logic, and reason and logic are the rules for describing the functioning of the naked reality that causes understanding and wisdom to arise. How then? How to cause that experience of naked reality? The answer is clear: remove ALL adornments, including the adornments of beliefs and concepts, and the adornments of reason and logic.

clyde

This is Truth.
mikiel

[clyde]

tooyi;

I may be competitive, but I was not competing with you. I believed that we were responding to one another. I used your metaphor and asked you what crop you expected. I felt that you (poetically) ducked the question, so I noted that and felt it best to end that exchange. There was no winner or loser, just an end.

I might not have responded to your post but for the last three questions,

What is it that you need before you can be without pretense? Can you imagine what it would be like? What would everything about you be without it?

You must sense pretense from my writing. Maybe there is, but I don’t think there’s much. To answer your first question, I don’t need anything before I can be without pretense. It would be just as it is now . . . only I would know the difference. Just as I am . . . but without fear.

clyde

[tooyi]

The metaphor only went so far. In winter you either are already eating bread, or you run under the snow searching for scraps.

[Jason]

In response to the thread's subject line:

It is from the experience of naked reality (suchness), reality as it is without the adornment of beliefs and concepts, that applying sound reason and logic causes understanding and wisdom to arise. But one does not cause that experience of naked reality by applying reason and logic, the naked reality is the source of reason and logic, and reason and logic are the rules for describing the functioning of the naked reality that causes understanding and wisdom to arise. How then? How to cause that experience of naked reality? The answer is clear: remove ALL adornments, including the adornments of beliefs and concepts, and the adornments of reason and logic.

clyde

What do you mean by "adornments"? It sounds like you might be advocating cessation of thought as the path to ultimate reality. Do you think that thoughts/beliefs/concepts are part of ultimate reality? Isn't my experience of thinking and believing also suchness?

[clyde]

Jason;

I am not advocating the cessation of thoughts as a path to Enlightenment; otherwise a rock would be enlightened. Yes, of course thoughts and concepts are part of reality; all things are included. The point is to recognize thoughts as thoughts, concepts as concepts, and not project them onto other things.