maybe there isn't a normal

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

maybe there isn't a normal

Postby meganabma » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:00 pm

ok i'm really new at this and i'm not use to thinking outside my head but .... i was thinking the other day (which is really scary) when i heard the comment "what is normal?" but the thing is you can ask any one that question and they usually answer with "i don't know" so does that mean there is no such thing as normal or is it another one of those things that people just don't understand what is???
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby Trevor Salyzyn » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:09 pm

Normal is an average opinion as to what sort of behaviour and thoughts are acceptable. Unless living in a society of geniuses, a person with normal thoughts is very unlikely to have accurate thoughts.
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby Kevin Solway » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:09 pm

If you're asking "What is normal?", that just means "What is the norm?".

And the norm is just what is average.

So to find the norm all you need to do is the find the average, and that isn't too difficult.
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby daybrown » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:12 pm

You care to define "normal"? There seem to be lotsa attitudes about it. I dont think in terms of average, but what is optimal. This is where the Stoics like Epictetus were coming from. Its 'normal' to be deluded by group think. And, as Epictetus noted, if you break out of that to become truly rational, people think you are nuts.

Who getsta decide? Both oriental and occidental sages knew that people needed what we now call better case management. Both recommended living in the country tending a garden, where the case load was lower. If you are rational in the country, the neighbors think you are eccentric; but in the city, some are apt to tell the authorities you need to be watched.

Of course, cities have so many more sets of group think. Some of which can be damn dangerous. It may be normal to stay there and put up with the risk, and suffer the stress that results, but that's not maximally rational.
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby Carl G » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:19 pm

meganabma wrote:ok i'm really new at this and i'm not use to thinking outside my head

Good. Don't think outside your head. Definitely think inside your head.

but .... i was thinking the other day (which is really scary)

Thinking is scary for you? That's probably normal, at first. Normal. I'm getting ahead of myself.

when i heard the comment "what is normal?" but the thing is you can ask any one that question and they usually answer with "i don't know"

You think so? And, what the fuck does it matter what others believe?

so does that mean there is no such thing as normal

No, there is a normal, or 'norm' which is a sort of average based upon society's current values, which in turn is based largely on its programming. Call it herd behavior, whether as a whole or in its various little cliques.

or is it another one of those things that people just don't understand what is???

'People' is too broad a term. There are varying degrees of understanding about this, and about all other things.

What is your interest in the subject of normalcy? Do you see yourself as being outside the parameters?
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby Carl G » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:44 pm

Another way to look at it is how the Russians lived in small nuclear villages, before Genghis Khan's hordes of horse cavalry swept across the steppes, bringing dem dare cut and slash genetics to the West. The agriculturalist groups of 72-98 individuals had no way to cope with such an onslaught of linear reasoning, thus fell to the conquerors' seed. I mean, they also found these Mongols pretty sexy don't you know.

In centuries following both Oriontal and Accidental shamans and sha-womans used eurethro and psyllicibic imbibations in order to challenge the norms of perception. It was these seers and seekers, leaving behind their visions on cave walls (depicting not only biological wonders, but also the rounded rocks of Mars, and the winged chariots of the gods; Plato mentioned them obliquely and obligingly in his book, Glockenspiel Over Athens) that rocked their world, and worlds to come.

I could go on, and so I shall, regarding the normatives of normalcy, for I have miles to go before I sleep, and pages to fill. And bellies to fill with the good clean porridge of my youth, when back on the farm there weren't enuf shoes to go around, but there were plenty of oats., which by the way contain some 12% protein, as opposed to 8 or 9 for wheat, barley and rye, and only 7% for ordinary field corn. Hence the smartest kids in our neighborhood, and typically throughout the middle-era farming Age, lived in the hilltop areas, where soils were, ironically thinner, and could not grow corn, while the stupid flatlanders and their rich bottomland, grew dense between the ears from eating too many ears of the pig feed, and then went on to become politicians.

Is this a dense enough post? No, it deserves a fourth paragraph, the mightiest of all. I will go on, perhaps about the relative fighting strength of the Allied vs Axis troops in World War II, relative to diet, in every theater. By the way, good theater is important, too, as Bob Hope would surely tell you. One thing is certain, an army definitely fights on its stomach. And there is much to be said aboot the state of the art soup kitchens that followed the Roman Legions into battle. Fossilized lava indicates a steady flow of stamina-producing grain-based foods, and the journals of Euripides Pants concur, whereas the Huns' diet of poor horse meat just made them ornery as a henpecking wife, which was unfortunate for the Roman Empire, as any Ozark Mountain Man will tell you. Madness trumps patience every time.
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby daybrown » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:58 pm

Pretty good Carl. I too was raised on oats, born on a farm in 1939. We fed the horses oats cause we wanted strong smart horses; fed the pigs corn cause we wanted bacon, and nobody wants a smart hog.
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby Pincho Paxton » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:01 pm

'Normal' is an average. 'Normal behaviour' is a bit different...

I think that seperate views on the term 'normal behaviour' are acceptable, because this could be described as an insight as to what is acceptable behaviour. Who has the best insight?

Can we take our clothes off in public?
Should we masterbate?
Can we swear?

In some cases, we are waiting to be told if this is normal or not. Sometimes we want to hear the oppinion of a greater, devine being. In fact, now that I have written it down, it seems like a good reason to have a God, or an imaginary God. Who would be the juror of normal behaviour. However, an extremely confident person would probably trust their own oppinion, and might be more likely to be an athiest.

I think that it is very interesting, and I feel that I have solved a bit of a mystery there. Notice how the oppinions of heavy Christians are not really very normal. they use terms like.. Do not use God's name in vein. They are unable to realise what normal behaviour is, and therefore require an answer to what is normal, and in this case they require a God. That's it!!!
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Re: maybe there isn't a normal

Postby truth_justice » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:58 am

Kevin Solway wrote:If you're asking "What is normal?", that just means "What is the norm?".

And the norm is just what is average.

So to find the norm all you need to do is the find the average, and that isn't too difficult.



Well now, if we just take the average, we can expect, on average, a person to have one testicle and one breast.

"Normal" in certain contexts means "Majority". In other contexts it can mean "Above", "Bellow" or "At" an arbitrary mark/indicator. And yet in other contexts, it can mean "No other behavior has been observed". For example, its normal for the sun the rise and set. Or, death is normal for a human being. By no means have I presented all possibilities here.

What you should be aware of is how the word "normal" influences you. There are certain feelings "attached" to the word depending on the context. One can use the word to redirect ones attention away from something important.

If I want to make something seem less important, I would say to you "Yeah, this is normal, don't bother with it."

Careful of what "norms/normals" you accept or believe true. Ask yourself, "What's normal about normal?"
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