The Key to Freethought

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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divine focus
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The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

Now, for the central masculine function:
I wrote:The masculine seems to be the easier to self-sync. When its main focus is the self, it becomes directing instead of controlling. It doesn't need to align with any ideas or anything "outside," abstracted (such as culture or other people). It simply acts or doesn't act, in the best interest of self. Nothing is feared, nothing is worried about; concerns are dealt with immediately or not seen as concerns.
The key to freethought is honesty. We're used to having a specific reality that everyone agrees on, but to have that we have to deny the reality of any experience that falls outside of that. We try to control our experience to align with different "authorities" and to avoid "rocking the boat." We forget that we're on our own boats, and we're each individually the captain! By making our own experience now the authority, we free ourselves from the "official" reality our parents and their parents taught us to experience.

One of the first thing you'll notice when you're honest about your experience is that you have many choices available to you at any point in time. The choices may be very simple, unthinking choices, such as twirling in a swivel chair, or more "profound" choices that take time to decide. Normally, people might choose based on arbitrary information learned from the "authorities." To direct your experience yourself, you need to be honest as to which choices will be most fulfilling for you now.

The feeling of fulfillment is actually an emotion, a masculine emotion! Yes, there are "masculine" emotions. Joy and excitement are masculine emotions. Pride is also a masculine emotion, and it can be experienced without being judgemental. We can avoid the masculine emotions of anger, frustration, and even fright by making choices based on that feeling of personal fulfillment.

When you're honest about you're current experience, you can afford to be selfish in this way. What is fulfilling for you is in your best interest and in everyone's best interest. "Rough love" can be fulfilling and helpful when the emotion felt is positive (as opposed to "tough love"). It spotlights for yourself and others your sense of integrity and encourages personal responsibility. At the same time, it may be fulfilling to lend a helping hand, depending on the circumstances. The motivation for helping or not helping is personal and "selfish" when one is self-directing.

This sort of selfishness frees up the thought process. Time spent worrying about being "rational" by your culture's standards is used instead for more practical purposes, like enjoyment! Honesty allows a more accurate asssessment of reality that leads to efficiency and gracefulness in thought and action. For seekers of truth (which is everybody, really), freethought is invaluable.
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Jamesh
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Re: The Way of Freethought

Post by Jamesh »

The feeling of fulfillment is actually an emotion, a masculine emotion! Yes, there are "masculine" emotions. Joy and excitement are masculine emotions. Pride is also a masculine emotion, and it can be experienced without being judgemental. We can avoid the masculine emotions of anger, frustration, and even fright by making choices based on that feeling of personal fulfillment.
For interest, name a few feminine emotions. Just by what logic are you divvying up these emotions.

For myself I would consider masculine emotions as any emotion that spikes out infrequently, something that stretches to an extreme level, but is easily shattered (when the breaking force comes from a tangent) - just as a spear (masculine) is more easily broken than a shield (feminine - negates spear strikes).

Consider a lie detector test. When someone lies the line spikes up and is quite volatile - this is a spurt of masculinity. When someone is telling the truth or not answering a question the line is more uniform. For this reason longer lasting emotions such as pride and frustration are probably feminine - whereas at they may peak into masculine extremes.

I don't have a problem with excitment, anger and fright, as being masculine.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

Masculine emotions are those that lead to action; spiriting emotions, basically. Feminine emotions are the more soulful kind: security and belonging, powerful aliveness, and so on. Feminine emotions are actually psychological states more than true "emotions." The distinction's never been made in psychology as far as I know, hence the confusion. There are ideal emotions and not-so-ideal emotions or states on either side.
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truth_justice
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by truth_justice »

What do you mean by free-thought? Surely you don't mean a thought with no price, right?

Perhaps by free-though you mean: an original thought or an original idea.

Whatever you mean, I highly doubt that honesty has anything to do with it. And I presume when you talk about honesty you mean "honesty to oneself", rather than honesty to others.

If so, I ask you this: How do you know that you are honest to yourself? What measurement do you use? Are you honest that you are honest to yourself? Do you ever make mistakes? Can you be mistaken now?

Honesty has noting to do with free-thought. Even a mad man can have free-thoughts. In fact by definition, a mad man has
more original ideas than you or I.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

It's not about being perfectly honest. There really is no way to tell if you're being perfectly honest. Mainly, it's about knowing what will make you feel "satisfied," though that's not exactly the right word. The only way to do that is by being honest with yourself, by not denying choices because they aren't "right" or "acceptable." Only "The Man" says their not acceptable.

By freethought, I only mean "freedom of thought." Original thoughts may happen, but who's to say they didn't exist already? It may be hard to tell, but if it comes to you in a flash, it's probably not your original thought. It doesn't matter much though if it's original or not. Information is information.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by David Quinn »

.... is to remove everything that blocks or hampers thought.

-
truth_justice
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by truth_justice »

David Quinn wrote:.... is to remove everything that blocks or hampers thought.

-
Most beliefs hamper thought. If you believe something is true, you are not likely to examine it further. (Think of Ptolemy's belief that the earth was the center of the universe.) Most of our true beliefs are false. See Descartes Meditations.

Most of the emotions hamper thought. Fear, anger and love, almost eliminate thought.

Most basic needs hamper thought (Sex, hunger, thirst etc.)

There seems to be a heavy price for free-thought, if we need to remove everything that blocks or hampers thought.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by Kevin Solway »

truth_justice wrote:There seems to be a heavy price for free-thought.
But what about the cost of not having free thought? Is that not greater?
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by truth_justice »

divine focus wrote:It's not about being perfectly honest. There really is no way to tell if you're being perfectly honest. Mainly, it's about knowing what will make you feel "satisfied," though that's not exactly the right word. The only way to do that is by being honest with yourself, by not denying choices because they aren't "right" or "acceptable." Only "The Man" says their not acceptable.

By freethought, I only mean "freedom of thought." Original thoughts may happen, but who's to say they didn't exist already? It may be hard to tell, but if it comes to you in a flash, it's probably not your original thought. It doesn't matter much though if it's original or not. Information is information.
I think that is close: [not denying choices because they aren't "right" or "acceptable."]

To be fair, I will state my account of free thought, so it can receive your skepticism.

In my opinion the key to free thought is a certain type of attitude towards one's beliefs and belief-system.
The attitude is one of moderation. Namely, a certain amount of doubt towards "well accepted beliefs" balanced by
a certain amount of believe in "less accepted ones". A person with this type of attitude is usually open minded, less ignorant, less prejudice and willing to seek truth.
Last edited by truth_justice on Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by truth_justice »

Kevin Solway wrote:
truth_justice wrote:There seems to be a heavy price for free-thought.
But what about the cost of not having free thought? Is that not greater?
A philosophical approach. Nice!

Freedom or independence is perhaps the third highest good a man can achieve - be it in thought or any other form.
So I agree with you. All I did is point out the obstacles to free thought. There are many. That was my point.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by Alex Jacob »

I don't know if a specific psychology proposing distinct masculine and feminine emotions had been expressed by the Jungian school, but it certainly seems to be implied in the work:

http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/animaanimus2.html
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by Kevin Solway »

truth_justice wrote:Freedom or independence is perhaps the third highest good a man can achieve - be it in thought or any other form.
What are the higher goods?
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

truth_justice wrote:Most of the emotions hamper thought. Fear, anger and love, almost eliminate thought.

Most basic needs hamper thought (Sex, hunger, thirst etc.)
Actually, fear and anger can amplify thought, though they do limit rationality. And basic needs hamper thought only if they are needs instead of choices.
In my opinion the key to free thought is a certain type of attitude towards one's beliefs and belief-system. The attitude is one of moderation. Namely, a certain amount of doubt towards "well accepted beliefs" balanced by a certain amount of believe in "less accepted ones". A person with this type of attitude is usually open minded, less ignorant, less prejudice and willing to seek truth.
I would call that objectivity, or true rationality.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by Dan Rowden »

I'm not sure what "freethought" is; seems like a euphemism for "imagination" to me.

Free "thought" is merely love of truth. One of the great spiritual ironies is that the mind cannot be more free than when bound to the desire for Truth.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by truth_justice »

Kevin Solway wrote:
truth_justice wrote:Freedom or independence is perhaps the third highest good a man can achieve - be it in thought or any other form.
What are the higher goods?
Truth would be the highest good a man can possess. Perhaps followed by justice/harmony. And then freedom/independence or moderation. Why? Because it is impossible to have justice without truth and freedom without justice.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

Dan Rowden wrote:I'm not sure what "freethought" is; seems like a euphemism for "imagination" to me.

Free "thought" is merely love of truth. One of the great spiritual ironies is that the mind cannot be more free than when bound to the desire for Truth.
I'm late to reply to this, but recently I've been paying attention to the connection between life and imagination. It seems to me that what I call freethought actually aids imagination. A veil is lifted, so to speak, and things are seen more clearly.

The basis of the world we live in is belief, and what is belief but a form of imagination? Now, what is the source of imagination? The answer is the realization of Truth everyone is seeking.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

Free thought is absolute control. It is ongoing, as opposed to absolute judgment which is arrived at. Are you reaching for the absolute or living it?
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by mikiel »

A case of compounded ironies:
D.R. wrote:
Free "thought" is merely love of truth. One of the great spiritual ironies is that the mind cannot be more free than when bound to the desire for Truth.
When Truth is directly realized without being "bound" to the "desire" for it, one is (and thinks) truly freely... i.e., not via programed conditioning and personal desire.

d.f. wrote:
Free thought is absolute control. It is ongoing, as opposed to absolute judgment which is arrived at. Are you reaching for the absolute or living it?
Whos control? The illusion of personal control or the reality of surrender to transpersonal Truth? Thinking conditioned by all the circumstances of ones personal life or thinking transcending all such conditioning?
Your last sentence well taken... "bound" to the "desire" for Truth or presently living it?
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

mikiel wrote:d.f. wrote:
Free thought is absolute control. It is ongoing, as opposed to absolute judgment which is arrived at. Are you reaching for the absolute or living it?
Whos control? The illusion of personal control or the reality of surrender to transpersonal Truth? Thinking conditioned by all the circumstances of ones personal life or thinking transcending all such conditioning?
Your last sentence well taken... "bound" to the "desire" for Truth or presently living it?
It's your control. It is control over all that is your responsibility, which is you and all that happens to you. The control is not mental but bodily, if anything.

The desire for truth that binds the individual is only the result of judgment, which is spiritual or from on high. The higher self must realize that Truth inhabits the body, and that the search ends when it gazes at the individual exclusively.
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tim48484848
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by tim48484848 »

divine focus wrote:Now, for the central masculine function:
I wrote:The masculine seems to be the easier to self-sync. When its main focus is the self, it becomes directing instead of controlling. It doesn't need to align with any ideas or anything "outside," abstracted (such as culture or other people). It simply acts or doesn't act, in the best interest of self. Nothing is feared, nothing is worried about; concerns are dealt with immediately or not seen as concerns.
The key to freethought is honesty. We're used to having a specific reality that everyone agrees on, but to have that we have to deny the reality of any experience that falls outside of that. We try to control our experience to align with different "authorities" and to avoid "rocking the boat." We forget that we're on our own boats, and we're each individually the captain! By making our own experience now the authority, we free ourselves from the "official" reality our parents and their parents taught us to experience.

One of the first thing you'll notice when you're honest about your experience is that you have many choices available to you at any point in time. The choices may be very simple, unthinking choices, such as twirling in a swivel chair, or more "profound" choices that take time to decide. Normally, people might choose based on arbitrary information learned from the "authorities." To direct your experience yourself, you need to be honest as to which choices will be most fulfilling for you now.

The feeling of fulfillment is actually an emotion, a masculine emotion! Yes, there are "masculine" emotions. Joy and excitement are masculine emotions. Pride is also a masculine emotion, and it can be experienced without being judgemental. We can avoid the masculine emotions of anger, frustration, and even fright by making choices based on that feeling of personal fulfillment.

When you're honest about you're current experience, you can afford to be selfish in this way. What is fulfilling for you is in your best interest and in everyone's best interest. "Rough love" can be fulfilling and helpful when the emotion felt is positive (as opposed to "tough love"). It spotlights for yourself and others your sense of integrity and encourages personal responsibility. At the same time, it may be fulfilling to lend a helping hand, depending on the circumstances. The motivation for helping or not helping is personal and "selfish" when one is self-directing.

This sort of selfishness frees up the thought process. Time spent worrying about being "rational" by your culture's standards is used instead for more practical purposes, like enjoyment! Honesty allows a more accurate asssessment of reality that leads to efficiency and gracefulness in thought and action. For seekers of truth (which is everybody, really), freethought is invaluable.
If you want to see free thought in action.

Check out tim484848, and the topic "The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities"

What else can it be?
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by mikiel »

d.f.:
It's your control. It is control over all that is your responsibility, which is you and all that happens to you. The control is not mental but bodily, if anything.
"I" who? Spiritual awakening is direct realization that "I and the Creator are One"... That "I" am not an identity separate from Divine Consciousness manifesting locally as/through individuals.

Surrender of the illusion of separate identity results in selflessness... enlightenment.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by Tomas »

mikiel wrote:d.f.:
It's your control. It is control over all that is your responsibility, which is you and all that happens to you. The control is not mental but bodily, if anything.
"I" who? Spiritual awakening is direct realization that "I and the Creator are One"... That "I" am not an identity separate from Divine Consciousness manifesting locally as/through individuals.

Surrender of the illusion of separate identity results in selflessness... enlightenment.
Mikiel,

Please explain why you capitalize "Divine"

thanks


.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by divine focus »

mikiel wrote:d.f.:
It's your control. It is control over all that is your responsibility, which is you and all that happens to you. The control is not mental but bodily, if anything.
"I" who? Spiritual awakening is direct realization that "I and the Creator are One"... That "I" am not an identity separate from Divine Consciousness manifesting locally as/through individuals.
Maybe not the I, but the individual is the divine consciousness in complete control. At base the individual is alone and solitary, fully sovereign. The I is the witness which is connected to and the same as all other I's, but not the same.
Surrender of the illusion of separate identity results in selflessness... enlightenment.
The I becomes selfless, yes, but the individual becomes self-full. The control of the individual is sourced from the control of all individuals, but the source and the individual are indivisible.
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by mikiel »

d.f.:
Maybe not the I, but the individual is the divine consciousness in complete control. At base the individual is alone and solitary, fully sovereign. The I is the witness which is connected to and the same as all other I's, but not the same.
Individual *forms* are manifestations of the One (divine... caps optional) Consciousness in all. The "I" is this One. Surrender of the illusion of separate "i"-dentity (if you will) results in Liberation, the Grace of God-consciousness "in control" of the individual life, which, ironically is our natual state of freedom in complete harmony with "what is."
The I becomes selfless, yes, but the individual becomes self-full. The control of the individual is sourced from the control of all individuals, but the source and the individual are indivisible.
What exatly do you mean by "the individual becomes self-full?"

Your last statement seems to agree with the Truth of One Consciousness in all individuals, the "real-I-zation" (again, if you will) of which is Liberation from the illusion of (small case) self.

I agree that "the source and the individual are indivisible" in the sense of "not two", non-dual consciousness... "conscious unity."
Ramayana
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Re: The Key to Freethought

Post by Ramayana »

"You will be as Gods" (Genesis 3:4,5).

So says the serpent...
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