The Wisdom of the Infinite

[1ntel]

Simple to understand, yet difficult to understand it for what it may or may not be.

I don't know what to make of it! I just can't seem to completely rap my mind around it. It seemed to make sense while I was reading it, but when I stopped it left me feeling...Confused.

I'm totally out of it, is this normal?

I feel like an novice ball player playing for the major leagues. The catch is, I'm not even playing...But I really want to!

[1ntel]

David Quinn, Dan Rowden, Kevin Solway, and Trevor Salyzyn can I get some feedback? Can we please discuss: The Wisdom of the Infinite?

[Dan Rowden]

Sure, but you'll need to bring something specific the table. Plus, if you think you're going to be able to understand these things immediately, you really are out of it! It doesn't work that way. Patience is a virtue you'll need to work on.

[David Quinn]

That's good. It is the sort of reaction that I like to see in people. It means that some of it is connecting to what you already suspect to be true. It also means that you have an inkling of the mind-blowing nature of the material.

But as Dan says, you'll have to give it time to gestate inside you. There is a great treasure there to be discovered! You just need to be alert and patient.

Also, try reading some other material, such as Huang Po, Chuang Tzu, Lao Tzu, etc. See if your new found awareness gives you a different perspective on what they are saying.

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[1ntel]

When you first started your journey towards Enlightenment, what was the most important delusion you lost.
Furthermore, how does one lose such a delusion that was used as sort of a crutch for so long. (Fix the thing in which you needed the crutch for...?)

...I'd like you guys to give me some examples...

[1ntel]

My questions are stupid, aren't they?

[Dan Rowden]

No. So, how about you relax and wait for the responses?

[1ntel]

OMG!

[1ntel]

IT'S NOT MAKING SENSE!!!

[1ntel]

ALL THIS DOES IS JUST MAKE A PERSONS DEFENSES CRUMBLE...WHERE IS IT????

[1ntel]

There. I think I've showed enough patience for now. After all, my brand-new keyboard is still intact.

I'll start reading Aristotle on Monday.

[1ntel]

David Quinn wrote:

See if your new found awareness gives you a different perspective on what they are saying.

What kind of different perspective? How will I be able to tell if it's the appropriate one?

[skipair]

1ntel chill out. There will be plenty of time for you to think about stuff. A lot of people get trapped in the false majesty of the brainfuck high, and just sit in philosophical problems and subconsciously like it for that reason alone. It's good to be curious and tackle the issues...listen to what they are telling you. Best of luck.

[David Quinn]

Intel,

When you first started your journey towards Enlightenment, what was the most important delusion you lost.
Furthermore, how does one lose such a delusion that was used as sort of a crutch for so long. (Fix the thing in which you needed the crutch for...?)

...I'd like you guys to give me some examples...

The first major delusion I lost was the belief that everything was relative and uncertain, that scientific knowledge was all there was, and that it was impossible to discover timeless truths. I was able to overcome these interrelated delusions by taking reason seriously.

The next major delusion I lost was the belief that the Universe was physical in nature and objectively real. I overcame this by meditating on cause and effect and realizing that everything exists within the mind.

The next major delusion I lost was the belief that the Universe was a mental creation or a dream. I overcame this by plunging myself further into the Infinite and realizing that things are just as they are - neither physical, nor mental; neither objective, nor subjective; etc.

That will do for starters.

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[Jamesh]

I overcame this by meditating on cause and effect and realizing that everything exists within the mind.

Everything we know about occurs in the mind, thus exists within the mind in that sense, but without the duality of mind and external existence, such existence could not be caused to exist in the mind in the first instance. Therefore it is literally impossible that "everything exists within the mind". What exists in the mind is "names and symbols", as opposed to everything. Names and symbols are no less a "truth" than a generic or analytical truth like "everything is caused".

I note that that you acknowledge this in a manner in the next para

The next major delusion I lost was the belief that the Universe was a mental creation or a dream. I overcame this by plunging myself further into the Infinite and realizing that things are just as they are - neither physical, nor mental; neither objective, nor subjective; etc.

It is completely meaningless to say "that things are just as they are". How fucking feminine minded is that?
Everything has to be something, and that something is that they are entirely causal and relative.

[Ignis Fatuus]

The first major delusion I lost was the belief that everything was relative and uncertain

So, that one doesn't confirm a locked door without twisting the knob?

The next major delusion I lost was the belief that the Universe was physical in nature and objectively real.

Denying something is non-physical (a stone), is an absolute truth, a necessity for wisdom?

The next major delusion I lost was the belief that the Universe was a mental creation or a dream.

So, it's just as it is? ...?

It seems like trying to create a blank slate and from their input a constant, change, or something...

It's hard to grasp.

[Sapius]

David wrote;

The next major delusion I lost was the belief that the Universe was a mental creation or a dream. I overcame this by plunging myself further into the Infinite and realizing that things are just as they are - neither physical, nor mental; neither objective, nor subjective; etc.

Is that the final realization or is there something more to it?

Essentially, Jehu’s Sig says exactly the same thing – “Neither one nor not one.” Is that what you mean?

Does that mean that ultimately things are JUST A=A – but at the same time, are neither A nor not A?

[Dan Rowden]

The very first thing that really rocked me, philosophically, psychologically, was the idea that allthings were caused in a way that I had only thought of before in limited, linear, scientific terms. I happily thank Kevin for this insight because even though I'd read about and knew about the general idea of "oneness" long before, especially in my interest in the Eliatics of ancient Greece, his was a totally new and more valid way of thinking of such things. Basically I knew nothing about Buddhistic/Eastern modes of thinking. The ability to contrast and merge the two was an ineffably important part of the development of my thinking.

The realisation of the way things exist is the basis of everything: every understanding and non-understanding, every delusion and wisdom, every failure and every success in one's further thinking about life and reality. The flag of any thinking being or nation should be A=A.

Hmm, that gives me multiple, possible crappy, marketing ideas....

[Ignis Fatuus]

Stealth-talking is what this is!...Give me something I can chew on!!!

...Please...

[Dan Rowden]

Where do things begin and end? Chew on that.

[Ignis Fatuus]

What do you mean?

[Ignis Fatuus]

Life began in the beginning and it will end in the end...?

[Ignis Fatuus]

It began when I became somewhat conscious and it will end when I die.

[Dan Rowden]

I mean where does any specific thing begin/end. Your keyboard, you monitor, your kitchen, your life.

Don't respond till you're sure you can say something salient.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Salient; outstanding--Thanks for the new vocab!:)

I mean where does any specific thing begin/end.

What do you mean by: begin/end?