Genius = Prophet

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
alek
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Genius = Prophet

Post by alek »

Hello everyone. This is my first post on the forum and I hope to read and participate in many exciting discussions in the future.

For a start I want to start a discussion on this question:

Is a genius also a prophet?
To me, the two terms are almost synonymous because both mark a person that is larger than life.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

A prophet is traditionally a person who receives orders from afar. I see no difference between a prophet and any other fallible human being. He is like a writer who doesn't know the difference between creativity and logic.

A genius, on the the other hand, knows the true order of things. They deal with facts, and determine if they correspond with reality. There is little desire to make an army of followers, or boost the ego by faking a better access to God. Anyone can be a genius: only a man who lies to the very bottom of his soul can be a prophet.
alek
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by alek »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:A prophet is traditionally a person who receives orders from afar. I see no difference between a prophet and any other fallible human being. He is like a writer who doesn't know the difference between creativity and logic.
I humbly disagree with this definition. A prophet is traditionally an intermediary between the divine and the masses. If you consider truth as divine, then a prophet comes really close to being a genius.
It all comes down to how you define god or divinity. A prophet is the man who comes closes to that ideal.
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average
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by average »

Genius = Prophet
depending how you define each one

If a Genius is someone who has complete knowledge of all causal events, past, present, and future, in all possible worlds, i.e a truly enlightened being ( a Buddha), then he will be able to make accurate prophecies about the future.

A person who simply comes in contact with the "divine" or some "magical presence" that simply tells him things about the future, can not be a prophet, since he does not understand the nature of the source, the causal connection between it and reality, and the authenticity of the information, so a prophet as simply being a middle man, a messenger, is not a reliable being.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

it is impossible to have complete knowledge of the future. All prophets merely speculate on historical trends of the past. There is nothing special about them. They are not receiving any sort of mystical visions from spirits, that is all nonsense. More times than not their predictions are incorrect.

A genius is different in this regard, he may speculate into future outcomes, but he knows that his speculations may not turn out the way he believes. Sometimes he may trick himself into believing that he knows the future with absolute certainity, but this is a form of self-deception. He is over confident in thinking he knows what cannot be known for certain.
cat10542
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by cat10542 »

Prophet= highly intuitive
Genius= highly rational
Prophet + Genius = Wise man

;)
(actually it all depends on definitions, there aren't really any stable definitions for prophet or genius, so they can be the same or different depending on context)
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David Quinn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by David Quinn »

The word "genius" originally meant guardian spirit. So it refers to someone who guards the spiritual welfare of the human race, which he does through his comprehension of reality.

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BMcGilly07
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by BMcGilly07 »

In the traditional biblical sense of the word 'prophet', one was considered a prophet who appeared in times where a divergence from God's covenant was taking place, and thus forecast the doom of those who were recalcitrant and failed to right their wrong-doing. They were considered divine mouthpieces insofar as they spoke out publicly and decried the evils of their time. Basically, they were "essence of jewish mother," as they were concerned with the covenant between mankind and what we recognize as the judeo-christian concept of God, which I know to be ridiculous.

In modern times this definition has been loosened to describe a godly fortune teller. Neither of these definitions is nearly identical with genius.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

I think oracle, genius and prophet is essentially the same thing, not withstanding the confused people that got or claimed those titles after the wisdom had already left the building.

The link with predicting the future is interesting because the only possible way to know anything about future is to understand past and how present relates. Often I think about it in the following way: God is the past (causality or law), Spirit is the present (now, power, life, appearances) and Christ is the future (ideal, wisdom, insight, Ubermensch).

A prophet is then not as much predicting the future, but concerned with it, preaching and forming it with every move.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

alek wrote:Hello everyone. This is my first post on the forum and I hope to read and participate in many exciting discussions in the future.

For a start I want to start a discussion on this question:

Is a genius also a prophet?
To me, the two terms are almost synonymous because both mark a person that is larger than life.
This is my second psot here and I also hope to read and paricitpate in exciting discussions.

No, a genius is not a prophet any more than a prophet is a genius. A true prophet has to be speaking from God in order to be passing along the truth of God's word. Otherwise he's not a true prophet. That doesn't take intelligence, per se, only making sure that the words he speaks comes from the one true God.

That means that the words he speak cannot:

1) contradict themselves
2) Come from any personal agenda or human desire

And since God has told us that he will not send us any more prophets because we now hear from the Son, then anyone who claims to be a prophet but doesn't agree with Christ's words, is a false prophet.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

I'm not allowed to disagree with second-hand accounts of things someone else said? Come on, be reasonable....
Ataraxia
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Ataraxia »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:A prophet is traditionally a person who receives orders from afar. I see no difference between a prophet and any other fallible human being. He is like a writer who doesn't know the difference between creativity and logic.

A genius, on the the other hand, knows the true order of things. They deal with facts, and determine if they correspond with reality. There is little desire to make an army of followers, or boost the ego by faking a better access to God. Anyone can be a genius: only a man who lies to the very bottom of his soul can be a prophet.
I concur.

Prophet seems to me a redundant word if used by someone who doesn't believe in the Abrahamic style God, or the supernatural.If one uses this word he is then faced with additional problems of having to define what he means by God - 'truth'? or 'wisdom'? or 'Reality'?

It's not a word in my vernacular.

Sage,Genius or 'holder of wisdom' are more useful nouns.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:A prophet is traditionally a person who receives orders from afar. I see no difference between a prophet and any other fallible human being. He is like a writer who doesn't know the difference between creativity and logic.

A genius, on the the other hand, knows the true order of things. They deal with facts, and determine if they correspond with reality. There is little desire to make an army of followers, or boost the ego by faking a better access to God. Anyone can be a genius: only a man who lies to the very bottom of his soul can be a prophet.
Only God knows the true order of things. The definition of a genius is relative. A genius is generally considered to be someone who thinks more than most people. But if one doesn't know what the truth is, then he can't claim that a genius is telling the truth. And that's how people can be easily deceived by false teachers and false prophets.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Only God knows the true order of things.
How do you know that this is the true order of things, then? This statement contradicts itself, and thus must be false.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:
Only God knows the true order of things.
How do you know that this is the true order of things, then? This statement contradicts itself, and thus must be false.
You can't claim that it contradicts itself unless you can prove that God doesn't exist. So my statement stands as true. Jesus himself showed the world who God is by his words and actions, which, I might ad is precisely why people don't believe Jesus; because he performed the supernatural actions of a higher power than humans.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

No, it contradicts itself because it is a statement about the true nature of reality. If only God can know the true nature of reality, then you can't even make such statements.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:No, it contradicts itself because it is a statement about the true nature of reality. If only God can know the true nature of reality, then you can't even make such statements.
But since God has told us the true nature of reality in the bible, then we can know it also. But God knows much more about reality than any human can conceive or we wouldn't be human, we would be God instead. So only a prophet who hears from God can convey what God tells him to convey. So it's you who contradicts yourself, my friend.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

But since God has told us the true nature of reality in the bible, then we can know it also.
Then humans can also know the true nature of Reality, and you said something false earlier.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:
But since God has told us the true nature of reality in the bible, then we can know it also.
Then humans can also know the true nature of Reality, and you said something false earlier.
Only if he knows who the one true God is and therefore passes along his message which is also what I said earlier.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

No you didn't. You said that only God can know the true nature of Reality. You said something false.

Humans can know the true nature of Reality.
Ataraxia
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Ataraxia »

Carico illustrates the problems of saying genius=prophet.

If we are to accept his version of the meaning of God(which happens to be the general use of the term) then we can conclude that Prophet does not equal genius.

To speak with and convey the word of God you don't need to be intelligent, insightful or wise,only lucky.

By means of example,Joseph Smith(of Mormon fame) wasn't wise-he was either lucky,or a convincing bullshitter.
Last edited by Ataraxia on Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:No you didn't. You said that only God can know the true nature of Reality. You said something false.

Humans can know the true nature of Reality.
I said:

This is my second post here and I also hope to read and paricitpate in exciting discussions.

No, a genius is not a prophet any more than a prophet is a genius. A true prophet has to be speaking from God in order to be passing along the truth of God's word. Otherwise he's not a true prophet. That doesn't take intelligence, per se, only making sure that the words he speaks comes from the one true God.That means that the words he speak cannot:

1) contradict themselves
2) Come from any personal agenda or human desire

And since God has told us that he will not send us any more prophets because we now hear from the Son, then anyone who claims to be a prophet but doesn't agree with Christ's words, is a false prophet.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

If humans can know the true nature of reality, his words don't even need to come from God to be accurate. So prophecy is irrelevant.
Carico
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Carico »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:If humans can know the true nature of reality, his words don't even need to come from God to be accurate. So prophecy is irrelevant.
But humans don't know the true nature of reality which is why we all disagree with each other and why we have prophets from God. So once again, a true prophet speaks wisdom from God, not from man. The latter is called a philosopher or a psychic. End of story.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Genius = Prophet

Post by Dan Rowden »

Carico wrote:
Trevor Salyzyn wrote:If humans can know the true nature of reality, his words don't even need to come from God to be accurate. So prophecy is irrelevant.
But humans don't know the true nature of reality which is why we all disagree with each other and why we have prophets from God. So once again, a true prophet speaks wisdom from God, not from man. The latter is called a philosopher or a psychic. End of story.
Humans don't know reality because they can't agree on it but apparently the fact they can't agree on what God is doesn't carry the same fate. Interesting.
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