^

[lou]

hello,
I am not sure what to do at any time because I don’t understand what is going on... the days and nights, eating and sleeping and being awake, seeing things and sounds and stuff... and thoughts, always with thoughts happening, I don’t understand the source of any of it... howcome everyone seems to know who they are, and know what is happening, and have thoughts and see the world and stuff and act in it as if it makes sense to them, as if there is nothing weird about just playing out the motions without understanding the fundamental basis of anything? why do all seem asleep to the imminence of everything, the utter confusion of it? I have tried to point it out to people but it is strange because it is so obvious that communicating it seems almost impossible, like trying to point to air... and even if I do manage to have someone register the blazingly present mystery of their predicament, they cannot seem to hold their attention on it for long, and soon they are back to trusting thoughts and being scared of stuff and thinking they know what they are and what to do, they sort of float back to sleep, the whole world is sleeping and dreaming out this crazy story... I don’t get any of this, it is so spun out. so many eyes, but who sees?

[LooF]

hallu

because they never thought of it

or

it prevents them from living like others

thinking like that helps them? not really

so naturally they go back

[Matt Gregory]

hello,
I am not sure what to do at any time because I don’t understand what is going on... the days and nights, eating and sleeping and being awake, seeing things and sounds and stuff... and thoughts, always with thoughts happening, I don’t understand the source of any of it...

All things are interconnected via cause and effect, so there really is no source to anything, other than Nature (the All).

howcome everyone seems to know who they are, and know what is happening, and have thoughts and see the world and stuff and act in it as if it makes sense to them, as if there is nothing weird about just playing out the motions without understanding the fundamental basis of anything? why do all seem asleep to the imminence of everything, the utter confusion of it? I have tried to point it out to people but it is strange because it is so obvious that communicating it seems almost impossible, like trying to point to air... and even if I do manage to have someone register the blazingly present mystery of their predicament, they cannot seem to hold their attention on it for long, and soon they are back to trusting thoughts and being scared of stuff and thinking they know what they are and what to do, they sort of float back to sleep,

Most people have no conscience and don't care about truth. They just want to know how to become more comfortable.

the whole world is sleeping and dreaming out this crazy story... I don’t get any of this, it is so spun out. so many eyes, but who sees?

Just Nature.

[reedsch]

We all live in the same world, but the world is not the same for all of us.

[lou]

yes it is bizzarre though that it does not burn in people like a terrible lie... so strange that there is no communal recognition of the seemingly impossible notion of being, and of being communal, in any moment... it is bizzarre that people seem so awake, with their deductive logic and their humour and so forth... yet are so asleep to the most fundamental question of our shared circumstance, and play out their characters in the world as though all their tiny human details are actually important somehow, and if asked to look past all the dreaming and acknowledge the lack of foundation under their perceptions, they are always confused by the notion, as though it never entered their mind, or as though it is silly, or immature or something to even look or dabble there... or they have been neutered by some religion, and they think, 'oh yes, this is religion you speak of', and then they switch off, thinking it a faraway thing, not seeing the impossible question burning furiously in front of their face, for them, only them, right there, ever accessible, in any moment regardless of anything... how is it possibly ignored individually, let alone communally? why dont people feel awkward and uncomfortable and deceptive in mutually sustained ignorance? how does their tiny human story possibly survive the piercing ever-present contradiction of being aware right now?

[kennyvii]

how is it possibly ignored individually, let alone communally? why dont people feel awkward and uncomfortable and deceptive in mutually sustained ignorance? how does their tiny human story possibly survive the piercing ever-present contradiction of being aware right now?

Don't you envy them?

[Katy]

Don't you envy them?

I used to. Now I pity them.

[lou]

Don't you envy them?

why would i envy them?

[Tharan]

You are a ball of clay, grasshopper. And Reed and Kelly want to mold you to their hearts desires.

[kennyvii]

why would i envy them?

Oh, no reason. My pardon.

[Dan Rowden]

You are a ball of clay, grasshopper. And Reed and Kelly want to mold you to their hearts desires.

And you don't?

[Nick]

Yes it never ceases to disturb me how humans can be so content with their ignorance. It seems that no matter where I look, Reality is constantly nagging for my attention, how could it not be so for my fellow man?

For now let those who have eyes, see; and let those who have ears, hear!

[ExpectantlyIronic]

How is it possible for anyone on this board to be content with their ignorance? We're all eternally ignorant. Some folks will ask questions until the day they die, and continue to doubt whatever steps before them, and uselessly look for a deeper answer, and more secure truth; and others will stop asking questions, and become content with what they know, seeking practical gains of one sort or another, or perhaps lecturing others on various "truths" on message boards. Who's to say which is wiser? I imagine everyone does a bit of both, really.

[со&am]

lou is fledgling

loof is wise

matt gregory believes himself to be very clever, he is ok with this

reedsch also thinks highly of own wiseacring, but is less ok with it

kennyvii cant see admissions of pride in own behaviour

tharan is bitchy politics whore

nick treklis throws his 'fellow man' to hell, shakes hands with cunty fingers

expectantlyironic thinks sleep is the middle way

katy is most horrible of all

[Matt Gregory]

Alright, you got me. I knew I was crossing the line using capital letters like that.

[lou]

what is so scary about confusion?

[ExpectantlyIronic]

sockpuppet,

I don't think there's any sort of "way": front, back, or middle.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

i knew i should have contributed to this thread. then i could have gotten a 12-second psychoanalytic report. i hope i'm not too late!


lou: being able to see reality clearly is the result of upbringing, often coupled with a degeneracy or crippling disatisfaction elsewhere in life. it requires unshakeable lifelong purpose -- a good philosopher is not much different than a high-tier athlete. his muscles are too strong to relax ever.

the reason you (claim to) see reality as a pressing issue and others do not is the same reason that another man sees yonder mountain as something to be skied down, yet you do not. if you valued skiing, you'd be wondering about the mountain instead of metaphysics.

[Nick]

I got an animated psychoanalytic thingy... someone has a crush on me. ;-)

[Tharan]

You are a ball of clay, grasshopper. And Reed and Kelly want to mold you to their hearts desires.

And you don't?

I would have to care first.

[reedsch]

reedsch also thinks highly of own wiseacring, but is less ok with it

I was wondering why it is that Jews are so damn funny. Nobody beats the Jews for humor, nobody. Just a thought.

Mr.1089,
What's the difference between a wise man and a wise guy?

Anyway, I plead guilty as charged and throw myself at the mercy of the court.

[lou]

the reason you (claim to) see reality as a pressing issue and others do not is the same reason that another man sees yonder mountain as something to be skied down, yet you do not. if you valued skiing, you'd be wondering about the mountain instead of metaphysics.

but it is different to this. skiing, mountains, philosophy, metaphysics, this is all just detail up at the complex end of things... sure, whether one man is a philosopher and another a skiier, this is a question of what is valued by the man in question... but i am not saying, why isnt everyone a philosopher... philosophy, is just skiing by another name

what i am making reference to is before all this, before who is a philosopher and who is a skiier.. before what is valued and so before the whole story. to me it doesnt seem to be a question of value, value comes later as part of the human story...

to see what i am making reference to takes no philosophical muscle, it does not require unshakable lifelong purpose, it is always right there, absolutely undeniably right there in every moment

what a fantastically amazing thing semi-awareness is... for it seems to me that that is what it must be, it is not self-awareness... that it can survive the utterly imminent and brilliant confusion of being awake and knowing it, every second for so many years... i find it absolutely incredible, mind-bogglingly impossible, i cant understand why human beings are not waking up all over the place.

[Katy]

How'd I get to be most horrible? :(

[со&am]

How'd I get to be most horrible? :(

I used to. Now I pity them.

pity, pity makea me sick

[Trevor Salyzyn]

lou,

i find it absolutely incredible, mind-bogglingly impossible, i cant understand why human beings are not waking up all over the place.

Often they do, but for the span of minutes -- once in their life. If not fully, then partially, and then they give up. Why they give up can be fear, boredom, or another emotional reaction. How they justify it is different.

If you have bills to pay, children to support, a wife to satisfy, friends to keep track of, an addiction or two (caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sex), movies to watch, books to read, vacations to plan for, cars to keep topped up with gas, lawns to mow, bosses to please, and a good night sleep to have every night...

There simply isn't time or reason to pay attention to the immediate environment, let alone Reality. That is the justification, but it is a flimsy justification. But it is what I mean by unshakeable lifelong purpose: any and every thing in that list can never take priority. Then you are trapped confronting the real emotions that say No to Reality.

The muscle is what says: even if I have none of these things, I still have something bigger than all of those to deal with. And the muscle wants to say Yes to that.

what i am making reference to is before all this, before who is a philosopher and who is a skiier.. before what is valued and so before the whole story. to me it doesnt seem to be a question of value, value comes later as part of the human story...

It must be a question of value. Why someone chooses one thing over another is always based on values. Maybe you mean before consciousness of value? or how someone could choose values so poorly? or why values are often little more than emotional reactions?

The skier who'd rather ski than sit in a chair and think has values and he made a choice, even if he wasn't aware of it. Ignorance of his options is no excuse.

what a fantastically amazing thing semi-awareness is... for it seems to me that that is what it must be, it is not self-awareness... that it can survive the utterly imminent and brilliant confusion of being awake and knowing it, every second for so many years...

Hrmph. A dog is semi-aware. A skier going down the mountain based on instinct and impulse is semi-aware. A buddha is aware. I'm more fascinated with awareness.