Why I know no one is enlightened here

[unwise]

When I became enlightened, I was made aware of something I never would have thought of - from the position of the Cosmic Self, the Universe itself appears as an act of creative imagination of god-like proportions. The fact that you can imagine yourself to be embodied, moving around and dealing with other people, having adventures, enjoying the senses, likes and dislikes, enemies, friends, wars, golf and a fear of death......

These things amaze you beyond words. Because from the perspective of eternity, none of this can be. It is all dreamed up by God. This is very clear to the enlightened person. It is a vast celebration that God puts on for himself. That being the case, there is nothing to escape. God WANTS illusion for himself at times.

This need you have to escape shows that you haven't seen the alternative.

[Kevin Solway]

God WANTS illusion for himself at times.

It's not illusion.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Re: Why I know no one is enlightened here

When I became enlightened, I was made aware of something I never would have thought of - from the position of the Cosmic Self, the Universe itself appears as an act of creative imagination of god-like proportions. The fact that you can imagine yourself to be embodied, moving around and dealing with other people, having adventures, enjoying the senses, likes and dislikes, enemies, friends, wars, golf and a fear of death......

These things amaze you beyond words. Because from the perspective of eternity, none of this can be. It is all dreamed up by God. This is very clear to the enlightened person. It is a vast celebration that God puts on for himself. That being the case, there is nothing to escape. God WANTS illusion for himself at times.
.

unwise,
Your above quote is an absolutely correct view of part of a part of ultimate truth. The only thing that you left out of this part is that we are all pieces of God, but most people have forgotten that. That's okay, because that was part of the rules of the game that we agreed to (we also agreed to forget that we would forget).

The fact that you said "no one" is enlightened here shows that you still have a few steps to take to actually see everything in your sight by learning to differentiate a little better.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

God WANTS illusion for himself at times.

It's not illusion.

Kevin,

Precisely what does your "it" refer to?

[Kevin Solway]

Precisely what does your "it" refer to?

The world around us. The world of existing things. The world in which things come and go.

[sschaula]

Unwise,

I agree with you! If enlightenment happened to someone here, their mind would be blown and they wouldn't act the way everyone does here. There'd be no more questioning. No more of the seeking attitude that's so prevalent here.

Also no need to argue.

Don't worry folks, I'm still unenlightened. :-)

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Precisely what does your "it" refer to?

The world around us. The world of existing things. The world in which things come and go.

There is no "I" but there is a world around us? The world is just as much of an illusion as the self.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

If enlightenment happened to someone here, their mind would be blown and they wouldn't act the way everyone does here. There'd be no more questioning. No more of the seeking attitude that's so prevalent here.Also no need to argue.

We are alive because there is something that, on some level, we still enjoy about the game. Once one has been enlightened, one may choose to participate in the game again or step back and be contented with just being. It's fun to seek out others who are interesting, and sometimes it is fun to teach.

I can see the point of view that at the moment of enlightenment the game is not interesting, but one who has been enlightened can step in or out of the game at will and chooses to do so because the game can be fun, and it can be rewarding to help others have fun at the game. When others are enjoying losing the game, the enlightened person steps back. What's fascinating is that many people like to win sometimes and lose sometimes.

There are gender differences within the game, but not within enlightenment. In the game, men often love to fight, whereas less often do women like to fight. Men will fight often just for the fight, but women usually only fight to win. To argue is a form of a fight, which is different from debating or discussing. When you see a fight, you see a game. I play the peace game, not the fight game, but if I see people fighting and enjoying it - and no one is getting hurt, I step back. Like the fight between Ryan and sky on the other thread - they both thought they were winning so I watched with amusement.

[Kevin Solway]

The world is just as much of an illusion as the self.

The self isn't an illusion either. It's only an illusion if you're fooled by it.

[sschaula]

Elizabeth,

We are alive because there is something that, on some level, we still enjoy about the game. Once one has been enlightened, one may choose to participate in the game again or step back and be contented with just being. It's fun to seek out others who are interesting, and sometimes it is fun to teach.

How do you know that once a person is enlightened they can either participate or step back?

I can see the point of view that at the moment of enlightenment the game is not interesting, but one who has been enlightened can step in or out of the game at will and chooses to do so because the game can be fun, and it can be rewarding to help others have fun at the game. When others are enjoying losing the game, the enlightened person steps back. What's fascinating is that many people like to win sometimes and lose sometimes.

Where does this belief come that the enlightened can step in or out of the game? The fun factor, versus the not fun factor, disappears for the enlightened.

There are gender differences within the game, but not within enlightenment. In the game, men often love to fight, whereas less often do women like to fight. Men will fight often just for the fight, but women usually only fight to win. To argue is a form of a fight, which is different from debating or discussing. When you see a fight, you see a game. I play the peace game, not the fight game, but if I see people fighting and enjoying it - and no one is getting hurt, I step back. Like the fight between Ryan and sky on the other thread - they both thought they were winning so I watched with amusement.

All of this disappears with enlightenment.

Why are you so caught up on gender differences, Elizabeth? Is that why you're here?

[unwise]

I have never seen so many people who are so sure about what enlightenment is and what it is not. It's obscene.

I never spoke like that. I knew I was not enlightened and never said anything for sure. I was only sure that I had no idea. I read and listened with a good set of ears. I thought and listened for years, but never professed to know anything. I read the viewpoints and writings of perhaps 30 or 40 different people who were said to be enlightened - mystic Christians like Meister Eckhart, Hindus, Buddhists, New Age Californian Gurus, Krishnamurti, Ramakrishna, many many others. I did not profess to understand. I didn't understand. I practiced every form of discipline and renunciation. For some reason I was obsessed with enlightenment, but I did not know why.

Eventually I just gave up all seeking in every form. A couple years after this I was surprised with my own direct vision when I no longer sought it, talked about it, thought about it or read about it.

The arrogance of what I read here is really off the charts. Who is responsible for this?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

For some reason I was obsessed with enlightenment, but I did not know why

It's quite clear you still are quite obsessed, with yourself. Somehow you managed to hide this even from yourself after years of training, celebrated this as liberation and now you come here to somehow witness obsession and arrogance in everyone else.

Every hangout needs its jesters I suppose.

[Tharan]

I have never seen so many people who are so sure about what enlightenment is and what it is not. It's obscene.

I never spoke like that. I knew I was not enlightened and never said anything for sure. I was only sure that I had no idea. I read and listened with a good set of ears. I thought and listened for years, but never professed to know anything. I read the viewpoints and writings of perhaps 30 or 40 different people who were said to be enlightened - mystic Christians like Meister Eckhart, Hindus, Buddhists, New Age Californian Gurus, Krishnamurti, Ramakrishna, many many others. I did not profess to understand. I didn't understand. I practiced every form of discipline and renunciation. For some reason I was obsessed with enlightenment, but I did not know why.

Eventually I just gave up all seeking in every form. A couple years after this I was surprised with my own direct vision when I no longer sought it, talked about it, thought about it or read about it.

I went through the same phase; a yearning, intensive study for many years, and then release. And guess what? Now, I don't want that label you seem to dress yourself with like a pretty girl. Yet, I do live my life under the premise of truth; celibacy, sobriety, honesty. But, where did you miss that last quality, honesty? Ahh yes, it must have been when you were into the sections of study containing the Krish and the California New Agers. "Do what is useful." It is shortsighted. It does not see beyond this life. And therefore it is restricted to this life.

Give Bodhidharma a taste.

The arrogance of what I read here is really off the charts. Who is responsible for this?

Each of us is responsible for this, including you. It is only recognizable by individuals sharing the same qualities, much like enlightenment. To many, it is offensive, much like enlightenment. Upon discovery, for some time, we want it only for ourselves.

And that is why I have given you such a hard time for so long. I recognize certain things in you that are being squandered on the body. You affections lead you and your enlightened strivings are only secondary. You have more potential than that. But you are getting old, my friend. You need to priortize your last couple of decades in order to achieve what we both know you want.

[unwise]

truth; celibacy, sobriety, honesty

Now that you are perfecting your ego with these great qualities, you must feel nine tenths enlightened.

What you and the others here do not realize is that the foundation of your consciousness is not you. And, it is always pure and always present. It has always been present whether you were playing with your self, getting drunk or meditating with the correct chants and background incense, or consulting your discipline manuals.

I am the only 'person' here who does not think of my play stage ego clown presence as the real me. The rest of you take your clown ego as the controller over your subconscious mind and karmic tendencies. You have ego-fixation. My clowning around and flamboyance is not ego-fixation. You will all be surprised in then end as to what controls you because your conscious mind does not trump karma.

My real nature is non-different from yours. How then, can I be the arrogant one?

[sschaula]

My real nature is non-different from yours. How then, can I be the arrogant one?

Because you go on to say things like this:

I am the only 'person' here who does not think of my play stage ego clown presence as the real me. The rest of you take your clown ego as the controller over your subconscious mind and karmic tendencies. You have ego-fixation. My clowning around and flamboyance is not ego-fixation. You will all be surprised in then end as to what controls you because your conscious mind does not trump karma.

...there's something with "enlightened people" being really retarded. Why is that, I wonder? The siddha guru I had talked to, Swami G, would always get so frustrated and overwhelmed. She just posted a discussion she had with one of her disciples on her forum, saying how she might soon go into silence because none of the disciples want to spread the word of her and donate money...that they all take her for granted. How can it be so non obvious to the apparently wisest people that we run our own destiny? Where is there time to whine and moan about what other people are doing...things that aren't in your control?

Why is there time for you, unwise, to come here and say "I'm enlightened" to only have people type back to you "you're stupid". You know it's coming, so why do you continue?

As Frank would say..."it's your story. It's hilarious". We're all playing roles. The guru I went to...she's playing the guru role, which is a delusion. Unwise, you're playing the get rejected yet continue despite anything role.

I'd say that the person closest to enlightenment doesn't deal with any of this uselessness. They'd know that we are human, and wouldn't get so caught up in their "story". Because anyone with a motive is desiring something...anyone with an agenda. And how could desire possibly ever be born out of wisdom? It's always born out of delusion!

So basically...I hope people got something out of this rant. I don't care if unwise ever stops, or if he continues. I just don't see any clear thinking behind why he keeps coming back, making topics and claiming to be a guru. I personally think it's because he desperately seeks attention...which is very stupid...but if he's honest that he has attained some cool state of mind, then why does he continue to beat his head against a brick wall?

I hope this has brought some of what was once in the darkness, into the light.

[Tharan]

I am the only 'person' here who does not think of my play stage ego clown presence as the real me.

That is entirely my point. No one here thinks your stage persona is really NOT you. It is why we call you dishonest, not humouros like you would prefer. You should integrate the two and not play pretend when you you want to bring that side of yourself out.

Maybe you could start by creating an account with your real name. If that seems repulsive to you, please explain for us why. (I already know why but I would like to hear you say it.)

[Nick]

When I became enlightened, I was made aware of something I never would have thought of - from the position of the Cosmic Self, the Universe itself appears as an act of creative imagination of god-like proportions. The fact that you can imagine yourself to be embodied, moving around and dealing with other people, having adventures, enjoying the senses, likes and dislikes, enemies, friends, wars, golf and a fear of death......

You hypocrite! It's sickening to hear this coming from a man who relishes in the adoration he recieves from unconscious women and children.

These things amaze you beyond words. Because from the perspective of eternity, none of this can be. It is all dreamed up by God. This is very clear to the enlightened person. It is a vast celebration that God puts on for himself.

Don't kid yourself, it is not God putting on a celebration for itself. It is your ego celebrating itself, the most narcissistic behavior imaginable! What's even more sickening is how you celebrate your ego in the name of God.

That being the case, there is nothing to escape. God WANTS illusion for himself at times.

Believing in an illusion is escpaing. It is only your ego that wants illusion, not God. God has no wants or desires, God simply IS.

This need you have to escape shows that you haven't seen the alternative.

Apparently neither have you, as you escape on your motorcyle into illusion and ignorant bliss.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

How do you know that once a person is enlightened they can either participate or step back? ... Where does this belief come that the enlightened can step in or out of the game?

because it's obvious

and

The fun factor, versus the not fun factor, disappears for the enlightened.

During the periods the sage basks in enlightenment, both the "fun factor" nad the "not fun factor" disappear. When the sage steps into the game, the sage may have fun but to do so must risk not having fun - but the sage remembers that non-fun can easily be skipped by stepping out of the game.

The way you have written the fun factor quote, it appears that you think enlightenment takes all the fun out of life, but leaves the not-fun. That is anti-enlightenment.

and

Why are you so caught up on gender differences, Elizabeth? Is that why you're here?

I do not consider myself "caught up on gender differences" like some members/founders of this board may be, but neither do I ignore factors that appear pertinant, even if the factor is gender.

No that is not why I am here.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

When I became enlightened, I was made aware of something I never would have thought of - from the position of the Cosmic Self, the Universe itself appears as an act of creative imagination of god-like proportions. The fact that you can imagine yourself to be embodied, moving around and dealing with other people, having adventures, enjoying the senses, likes and dislikes, enemies, friends, wars, golf and a fear of death......

These things amaze you beyond words. Because from the perspective of eternity, none of this can be. It is all dreamed up by God. This is very clear to the enlightened person. It is a vast celebration that God puts on for himself. That being the case, there is nothing to escape. God WANTS illusion for himself at times.

This need you have to escape shows that you haven't seen the alternative.

then unwise wrote:

I have never seen so many people who are so sure about what enlightenment is and what it is not. It's obscene. I never spoke like that. I knew I was not enlightened and never said anything for sure. I was only sure that I had no idea...

unwise,
When we juxtaposition these posts of yours from earlier in this thread, the juxtaposition invites obvious questions.

[sky]

err forgive me for pointing out the obvious but your thread title is 'why i know know no one is enlightened here'

but you are here

and you say you know you are enlightened

what was the point of starting this thread

what was your real motivation

what did you expect the response to be

what was your intent

what was in it for you

[sschaula]

Elizabeth,

because it's obvious

Consider that you might be wrong. It's obvious to the

During the periods the sage basks in enlightenment, both the "fun factor" nad the "not fun factor" disappear. When the sage steps into the game, the sage may have fun but to do so must risk not having fun - but the sage remembers that non-fun can easily be skipped by stepping out of the game.

The periods that the sage basks in enlightenment? Enlightenment is not something that comes and goes.

How can you step into and out of games, when delusion is dispelled, permanently?

The way you have written the fun factor quote, it appears that you think enlightenment takes all the fun out of life, but leaves the not-fun. That is anti-enlightenment.

Why would you assume I think that?

I do not consider myself "caught up on gender differences" like some members/founders of this board may be, but neither do I ignore factors that appear pertinant, even if the factor is gender.

No that is not why I am here.

It seems like you're in denial about this. If the issue is pertinent, then it should be clear to you that you have no way of becoming enlightened, nor talking about it...yet you continue to do so. Why?

I consider you caught up on gender differences, when you feel the need to defend yourself against the stupid and weak misogyny presented here. It makes you more stupid and weak than it, when you feel the need to defend yourself against it.

A person who is not caught up on gender differences doesn't think about them. Their mind is somewhere else. They aren't stuck in the game.

[Steven Coyle]

Unwise,

What do you consider the Cosmic Self?

[unwise]

Wow, so much to reply to.

The siddha guru I had talked to, Swami G, would always get so frustrated and overwhelmed

Here is one of my favorite 'swamis' - is this who you mean?
Wait a minute, thats not 'swami G' it's 'Ali G.' OK, sorry.

Why is there time for you, unwise, to come here and say "I'm enlightened" to only have people type back to you "you're stupid". You know it's coming, so why do you continue?

Because not everyone here will be an arrogant retard. There is hope.

And how could desire possibly ever be born out of wisdom? It's always born out of delusion!

God desires you to be free. Even Quinn would agree with that. Are you a retard?

but if he's honest that he has attained some cool state of mind, then why does he continue to beat his head against a brick wall?

Why did Jesus do it? Or Buddha?

I hope this has brought some of what was once in the darkness, into the light

How can any of you arrogant bastards bring anything into the light when you are as blind as a mole?

Maybe you could start by creating an account with your real name. If that seems repulsive to you, please explain for us why. (I already know why but I would like to hear you say it.

I have no interest in being thought of as a guru in my real life. I want no followers. I want no recognition. I want to be left alone. I want to teach in utter anonymity.

You hypocrite! It's sickening to hear this coming from a man who relishes in the adoration he receives from unconscious women and children.

You, sir, are an idiot. I need no adoration. I love to serve others and bless them. People who come into my life are god - and I have a relationship with god.

unwise,
When we juxtaposition these posts of yours from earlier in this thread, the juxtaposition invites obvious questions.

When I spoke of 'being ignorant' it was my state before enlightenment. I did not claim, like many here, that I knew what enlightenment was. I didn't try to teach others. I didn't attempt to shame enlightened people and bring a curse upon myself. I was just quiet and attentive. And then I became enlightened and everything changed. Now I simply state what is true - I am enlightened as the ancient sages were. I know what they said. I understand. I teach out of direct knowledge for all who are humble enough to learn.

err forgive me for pointing out the obvious but your thread title is 'why i know know no one is enlightened here'

but you are here

and you say you know you are enlightened

what was the point of starting this thread?

When I say, "No one here is enlightened" I, obviously, do not include myself. I am enlightened. I do not apologize for it. The point of my thread is that all the buffoons who post here would do themselves a favor by LISTENING and LEARNING instead of PONTIFICATING THEIR FUCKING IGNORANCE WHICH REALLY SMELLS BAD TO AN ACTUAL ENLIGHTENED PERSON.

Unwise,

What do you consider the Cosmic Self?

An actual question. It is popular here to say that there is no 'self.' Sometimes I agree with this as there is no ego self. What people assume to be the self is a temporary manifestation that is NOT the self. However, there IS a universal subjective SELF that is not in the universe. It observes the universe. It is the necessary subjective state that observes all else. This is the 'Cosmic Self' which I define in many ways at many times. I AM this Self. As Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM."

What demon impels you people to fuck with me?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

unwise,

What demon impels you people to fuck with me?

It's called a bullshit detector, although I understand how it would seem completely demonic to someone who can't help but constantly set it off.

The reason you don't have any disciples because you are hypocritical, insulting, and a terrible teacher. It has nothing to do with you not wanting them. It's plain as day that you are constantly trying to recruit students. You simply have nothing to say, and nobody wants to hear it.

I don't like responding to you because I have nothing nice to say to you. You epitomize the very worst characteristics of spirituality and self-delusion. I imagine that when you do have people "fucking with you" it's only because they still think there's something redeemable in that trivial, emotional, regressing mind of yours. I doubt it. You gave up years ago, and this bullshit you try to pass off as enlightenment is just the last cry of a soul admitting its defeat as it drifts away into permanant samsara.

[unwise]

hahaha. Good one. More from you.....please. ha.