Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:58 am
Nietzsche that socially meek and genetically frail little creature.
Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment
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Not you, Steven Lapierre. The last part of the conversation was directed at my relationship with Steven.You believe I don't have what it takes to do 'what' exactly?
Please logically explain to me how you came to this conclusion. Because every bit of logic I have suggests that unconsciousness is neither masculine nor feminine. And also what exactly is your definition of "unconsciousness"? Surely you don’t define “unconscious†the same way Freud or Carl Jung do. If nature is “unconscious†as Kevin Solway suggests, then why would you want to train your mind in opposition to “unconsciousnessâ€? Wouldn’t you want to attune yourself with nature/unconsciousness (seems a more logical conclusion to me)? Even after 6 hours of advanced meditation without having one thought in my head, I still would not erroneously call that state “unconscious†in fact it is more of a heightened consciousness. But I still attune my “heightened consciousness†with the “unconsciousâ€. This collaboration is absolutely necessary for an ultimate understanding. Fancy words really, sounds stupid when spoken out loud, but how else can you articulate a sensation of that magnitude. All said and done I still don’t see what any of this has to do with femininity, and even if it does why should it be subdued instead being harmoniously incorporated?Femininity implies unconsciousness.
Oh--I never knew you had truthful conversations with Steve - -but I think I recall you saying he was a bit receptive.
Cory: You believe I don't have what it takes to do 'what' exactly?
Steven: Not you, Steven Lapierre. The last part of the conversation was directed at my relationship with Steven.
Aloysha: Please logically explain to me how you came to this conclusion. Because every bit of logic I have suggests that unconsciousness is neither masculine nor feminine.
Yes, and you would have to be conscious of the ways of nature and thus logically and deliberately become attuned with nature.A: Surely you don’t define “unconscious†the same way Freud or Carl Jung do. If nature is “unconscious†as Kevin Solway suggests, then why would you want to train your mind in opposition to “unconsciousness� Wouldn’t you want to attune yourself with nature/unconsciousness (seems a more logical conclusion to me)?
Yes, you consciously and deliberatly do this, unlike the man or woman who lacks the masculinity.A: Even after 6 hours of advanced meditation without having one thought in my head, I still would not erroneously call that state “unconscious†in fact it is more of a heightened consciousness. But I still attune my “heightened consciousness†with the “unconsciousâ€.
I dont like where this is going...common CP - make it hurt so good,
If you’re gonna assign yourself as an inferior character, can you please refrain from homosexual characters because that actually puts me in a bad spot.I'm smithers, your Mr. Burns.
Why? Again, I stress.....openmindedness, flexibiltiy, masculinity, fearlessness.....courage......cp: If you’re gonna assign yourself as an inferior character, can you please refrain from homosexual characters because that actually puts me in a bad spot.
"hurts so good".......come on.........CP: Honestly though, it appears we both have monsters in our closets and at this stage of the game it is difficult to measure whose monsters are the scariest.
"I" have what it takes - - ok?CP: As long as your entire bedroom is filled with rationality while a small part of the closet is occupied by monsters then there shouldn’t be a problem.
What type of green tea y'all drink?Green Tea at my place tonight?
Ahh Cory! Don't you mean "oriental" rug? Silly man what type of "oriental" philosophy are you referring to?According to oriental philosophy
As I explained in my essay in the "Masculine and Feminine Psychology" thread, the main influence is the first-hand knowledge of what kind of mentality is required to become wise - namely, single-mindedness, ruthlessness, idealism, courage, rationality, love of Truth, the ability to think non-emotionally, etc. Everything is extrapolated from that.I’m wondering to what extend Nietzsche is influencing this whole “masculinity†obsession?
DQ: For example, imagine that you are a flatlander living in a 2D universe and that a large V-shaped object descends upside down from another dimension and stops just as it intersects the 2D universe. From your perspective, it would appear as if two small objects simultaneously appeared out of nowhere a long way apart.
Now you could either take this "simultaneous event" at face value and cook up all sorts of exotic theories, like synchronicity and so forth. Or you could take on board the logical truth that all things are necessarily caused and try to find a more sensible explanation.
A: Back to Causality, oh there goes gravity, oh there goes Rabbit.
Yo DQ!
So you are basically supposing that there are “alternate realities†or “dimensions of time and space (alternate universes)†and that just because something appears to be a “coincidence†or “chance occurrence†it is really just a cause and effect scenario that can’t been recognized (do to the fact that it is from an alternate universe)?
Well, let's investigate this. What is an example of a "spontaneous variable" or "free-form element"? I personally can't conceive of one.I think that what you are saying is totally possible, but I don’t see how it is more grounded in logic than just supposing that the moment has a spontaneous variable that exists beyond cause and effect (but in concurrence with it). This spontaneous variable might not necessarily come from an alternate universe but could simply exist as a free form element without a birth and death, an A and a B, a cause and effect, or any chain of connecting occurrences that form a narrative. Is it possible that this spontaneous variable is simply a product of any given moment and not a product of a past and a present (which is what cause and effect is am I right)?
Yes.Do you feel that you have an ultimate understanding of everything?
Do you no longer feel a sense mystery in your life?
There is nothing to sum up in the first place.Do you feel existence is an entirely rational occurrence that can be summed up beautifully using the powers of logic?
I respect you for that.DQ:
I agree it is important to recognize that we are all actual, breathing, human beings. That is why, for example, Kevin, Dan, and I have been open with our lives, publishing our real names, photos, personal details, private letters, etc, on our various sites. We want to show that we are real people practising real philosophy. We're not anonymous entities hiding behind psuedonyms and engaging in "impersonal, alienated debates" for mere intellectual entertainment. What is discussed here on this forum is intimately connected to real life for us.
WTF? Yes, that's a question, not just a notation. That is a diametric derivative of a definition. A friend contributes to your life, and generally makes you life easier. "Generally" means you have to reciprocate, but the result is a net gain for both individuals.CP:
Friendship is difficult, it requires a lot of suffering
When a guy starts acting like he's getting too interested in me too fast, my first line of defense is to bring up quantum physics.Nick:
Whenever I decide to strike up a philosophical conversation with a friend they either A. block it out and don't want to hear about it, or B. engage in the discussion, but their logic is so horrid that they get lost before they even make one statement.
In my first career working in the hospitals, with only one exception, everyone we did CPR on was unconcious. Believe me - unconciousness does not look either masculine or feminine. It looks like inert matter.AlyOshA:
every bit of logic I have suggests that unconsciousness is neither masculine nor feminine.
Those are old-fashioned ideas. Please see and think for yourself. Don't just take whatever you were taught for granted. You have a good brain - use it to think with, not just to remember with.CP:
To be feminine is to believe things via obedience to emotions and to remain uncertain via obedience to emotions.
According to the last generation of oriental practice, if a female is born, it should be discarded. Now a lot of oriental men are having difficulty finding a wife in their country. Fortunatly Americans adopted a lot of oriental girls, but they have been Americanized. I suspect that oriental philosophy will be changing rather abruptly.CP:
According to oriental philosophy, irrationality is feminine and rationality is masculine.
I almost totally agree. If I change the wording slightly (therefore the meaning ) to "Great feelings and sensations are not usually conscious, and are not concious to average people" then I like the statement even better. I think we can develop a skill for conciously feeling.CP:
Great feelings and sensations are not conscious, but we can be conscious of our relationship to them - - we must be -- otherwise we become entrammeled and enslaved to the more inferior sensuality of wordly gimmicks, of irrational thoughts, of disney world, of gambling, drug, Jesus our savior, sex, new agey beliefs, we become suicide bombers, we vote for Kallen on American Idol, we eat 5 big macs in one week, etc, etc...
Single-mindedness does not lead to wisdom. Wisdom comes from a vast compilation. Reptiles are single-minded. If an alligator has your dog in it's mouth, you can go right up to it, attack it, and not be in danger.DQ:
the main influence is the first-hand knowledge of what kind of mentality is required to become wise - namely, single-mindedness, ruthlessness, idealism, courage, rationality, love of Truth, the ability to think non-emotionally, etc. Everything is extrapolated from that.
Not of itself, no. But when combined with a strong desire for ultimate understanding, good logical skills, and the courage to reject what is false, it becomes very powerful.Single-mindedness does not lead to wisdom.
What do you mean by multi-tasking in this context?The ability to think non-emotionally is remarkably valuable. If one must be single-minded to achieve non-emotional thinking, then yes, I now see where that could be a valid choice. A well-balanced person can multi-task it though.
So is single-mindedness and persistence sort of synonymous, in which case I agree that single-mindedness is important?If water drips long enough, it can cut through even the hardest of rock. The power of single-mindedness
Look I'm not politically correct or anything, but do we really have to say oriental. It just sounds really silly. Come on people oriental is a rug not a people.oriental practice oriental men oriental girls
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Organic, I’m on a fairly strict diet. Nutrition is essential.What type of green tea y'all drink?
My biggest monster at this stage is probably the odd visits to a few professional ladies on the Internet, but its easier than actual relationships with most of the dingbat women I encounter, It's a quick fix.CP bring those monsters out of the closet! Don't push them in the closet with all your rationality. Bring them out, face them, be with them, embrace them, then transcend them.
Okay, okay if you define it like that then yes.A mystery is basically an unresolved problem. But once you perceive the formless nature of God, you realize the great truth that there is essentially nothing to resolve.
Yes I agree.Here is nothing to sum up in the first place.
Why is it ok to say a rug is oriental in origin, and not ideas?Alyosha: Look I'm not politically correct or anything, but do we really have to say oriental. It just sounds really silly. Come on people oriental is a rug not a people.
What makes you think feelings are conscious of the people who feel them?Cory: Great feelings and sensations are not conscious, but we can be conscious of our relationship to them - - we must be -- otherwise we become entrammeled and enslaved to the more inferior sensuality of wordly gimmicks, of irrational thoughts, of disney world, of gambling, drug, Jesus our savior, sex, new agey beliefs, we become suicide bombers, we vote for Kallen on American Idol, we eat 5 big macs in one week, etc, etc...
Elizabeth: I almost totally agree. If I change the wording slightly to "Great feelings and sensations are not usually conscious, and are not conscious to average people" then I like the statement even better.
To me that sentence means: “we can be conscious of feelingâ€. (which is exactly what I originally said)Eliz: I think we can develop a skill for consciously feeling.
Orientals and the Orient
The term "Oriental" (from the Latin word for "Eastern") was originally used in Europe in reference to the Near East. It was later extended to the rest of Asia, but came to refer to East Asians in the 19th and 20th century US, where most Asians were Chinese (and later Japanese and Filipino). By the late 20th century, the term had gathered associations in North America with older attitudes now seen as outmoded, and was replaced with the term "Asian" as part of the updating of language concerning social identities[8], which critics have derided as political correctness.[9] Elsewhere in the English-speaking world, "Oriental" does not have such associations (except perhaps in Australia and among those exposed to the US use of the term).
DQ: There is nothing to sum up in the first place.
cp: Yes I agree.
Who cares? Yeah I know, its an irrational opinion and wasteful protest, but apparently you seem to care - considering you expressed your qualms about the word oriental twice already.A: Who cares a word is just a word, I just think it sounds silly.
Yes, there are a few imperfections that I have come to accept, but my search is finished. I don’t want anything out of life besides basic necessity, I haven’t been a slave to immature emotions for quite some time.You agree? So you have you solved all of the major philosophical questions, which the human race continues to find so imponderable, and successfully brought your philosophic quest to an end?