Synchronicity: Fact or Fraud?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

Nietzsche that socially meek and genetically frail little creature.
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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

I would say Kierkguaard would have had just as much of an influence on this forums emphasis on the masculine as Nietzche.

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To emphasize that which i'm sure has been said only a few days ago on other threads.....

Femininity implies unconsciousness. To be masculine is to be open minded and conscious.

To be conscious is to have good clear reasons for believing what one believes in (which woman and womanly men don't), and likewise, to be masculine is to have good clear reasons for remaining uncertain.

To be feminine is to believe things via obedience to emotions and to remain uncertain via obedience to emotions.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Cory wrote:
You believe I don't have what it takes to do 'what' exactly?
Not you, Steven Lapierre. The last part of the conversation was directed at my relationship with Steven.

If I had to judge both of us I would say each one possesses a certain rationality, however there is still room for growth in each one.

I never close the book on someone with passion/drive/hunger.
Last edited by Ryan Rudolph on Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

Femininity implies unconsciousness.
Please logically explain to me how you came to this conclusion. Because every bit of logic I have suggests that unconsciousness is neither masculine nor feminine. And also what exactly is your definition of "unconsciousness"? Surely you don’t define “unconscious” the same way Freud or Carl Jung do. If nature is “unconscious” as Kevin Solway suggests, then why would you want to train your mind in opposition to “unconsciousness”? Wouldn’t you want to attune yourself with nature/unconsciousness (seems a more logical conclusion to me)? Even after 6 hours of advanced meditation without having one thought in my head, I still would not erroneously call that state “unconscious” in fact it is more of a heightened consciousness. But I still attune my “heightened consciousness” with the “unconscious”. This collaboration is absolutely necessary for an ultimate understanding. Fancy words really, sounds stupid when spoken out loud, but how else can you articulate a sensation of that magnitude. All said and done I still don’t see what any of this has to do with femininity, and even if it does why should it be subdued instead being harmoniously incorporated?
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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »


Cory: You believe I don't have what it takes to do 'what' exactly?

Steven: Not you, Steven Lapierre. The last part of the conversation was directed at my relationship with Steven.
Oh--I never knew you had truthful conversations with Steve - -but I think I recall you saying he was a bit receptive.

But who knows CP, given the right circumstances, Steve could really make a big change. I know, pretty unlikely.

All right, your off the hook this time....

We can still be friends.

Green Tea at my place tonight?


I guess I'm just a little too eager to fulfill a fate where I'm driving in my car, clenching my fist - listen to that Kurt Cobain song "PAAAAAIIIIIIIN - - you know your riiiiiiighhht"

But then after that song, I'd put on that John Mellancamp song - "hurts so good"

common CP - make it hurt so good,
some times luuuuv dont feel like it should -- hurt so good.

Yes, CP, I'm garth, your wayne.

I'm smithers, your Mr. Burns.

Fine, fine. You wanna play that game, fine.

go fuck your self.

Ha, ha.

[in a threatening voice] Seriously, tea time at my place - tonight - 10:30
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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

Aloysha: Please logically explain to me how you came to this conclusion. Because every bit of logic I have suggests that unconsciousness is neither masculine nor feminine.


When some one is behaving irrationally, do you think they are conscious of their irrationality?

Is irrationality 'deliberate', 'conscious'?

According to oriental philosophy, irrationality is feminine and rationality is masculine.

To be irrational is to be unconscious.
A: Surely you don’t define “unconscious” the same way Freud or Carl Jung do. If nature is “unconscious” as Kevin Solway suggests, then why would you want to train your mind in opposition to “unconsciousness”? Wouldn’t you want to attune yourself with nature/unconsciousness (seems a more logical conclusion to me)?
Yes, and you would have to be conscious of the ways of nature and thus logically and deliberately become attuned with nature.

The more unconscious you are, the less capable you are of living peacefully with the fact of existence being unrational.

As Quinn said in the Masculine/feminine psychology thread, sensuality and feelings are really the reason why the sage doesnt suggest man simply kill himself off.

Great feelings and sensations are not conscious, but we can be conscious of our relationship to them - - we must be -- otherwise we become entrammeled and enslaved to the more inferior sensuality of wordly gimmicks, of irrational thoughts, of disney world, of gambling, drug, Jesus our savior, sex, new agey beliefs, we become suicide bombers, we vote for Kallen on American Idol, we eat 5 big macs in one week, etc, etc...
A: Even after 6 hours of advanced meditation without having one thought in my head, I still would not erroneously call that state “unconscious” in fact it is more of a heightened consciousness. But I still attune my “heightened consciousness” with the “unconscious”.
Yes, you consciously and deliberatly do this, unlike the man or woman who lacks the masculinity.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Cory wrote:
common CP - make it hurt so good,
I dont like where this is going...

Cory wrote:
I'm smithers, your Mr. Burns.
If you’re gonna assign yourself as an inferior character, can you please refrain from homosexual characters because that actually puts me in a bad spot.

Honestly though all joking aside, it appears we both have monsters in our closets and at this stage of the game it is difficult to measure whose monsters are the scariest.

As long as your entire bedroom is filled with rationality while a small part of the closet is occupied by monsters then there shouldn’t be a problem.
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

cp: If you’re gonna assign yourself as an inferior character, can you please refrain from homosexual characters because that actually puts me in a bad spot.
Why? Again, I stress.....openmindedness, flexibiltiy, masculinity, fearlessness.....courage......
CP: Honestly though, it appears we both have monsters in our closets and at this stage of the game it is difficult to measure whose monsters are the scariest.
"hurts so good".......come on.........
CP: As long as your entire bedroom is filled with rationality while a small part of the closet is occupied by monsters then there shouldn’t be a problem.
"I" have what it takes - - ok?

[cory stands in front of the mirror naked with his hands on his hips and stares at his small penis (6inches when errect though) with fierce focused eyes and struggles to do the helicopter - he sneers]

On a serious note:

I find when I'm trying to be a comedian, I am rooted in insecurity.

You may that is only because I am not very funny.

And I say: go fuck yer self.

no, seriously - tea time at my place - 10:30
AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

CP bring those monsters out of the closet! Don't push them in the closet with all your rationality. Bring them out, face them, be with them, embrace them, then transcend them.
Green Tea at my place tonight?
What type of green tea y'all drink?
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AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

According to oriental philosophy
Ahh Cory! Don't you mean "oriental" rug? Silly man what type of "oriental" philosophy are you referring to?
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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn »

Alyosha,
I’m wondering to what extend Nietzsche is influencing this whole “masculinity” obsession?
As I explained in my essay in the "Masculine and Feminine Psychology" thread, the main influence is the first-hand knowledge of what kind of mentality is required to become wise - namely, single-mindedness, ruthlessness, idealism, courage, rationality, love of Truth, the ability to think non-emotionally, etc. Everything is extrapolated from that.

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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn »

Alyosha wrote:
DQ: For example, imagine that you are a flatlander living in a 2D universe and that a large V-shaped object descends upside down from another dimension and stops just as it intersects the 2D universe. From your perspective, it would appear as if two small objects simultaneously appeared out of nowhere a long way apart.

Now you could either take this "simultaneous event" at face value and cook up all sorts of exotic theories, like synchronicity and so forth. Or you could take on board the logical truth that all things are necessarily caused and try to find a more sensible explanation.

A: Back to Causality, oh there goes gravity, oh there goes Rabbit.
Yo DQ!
So you are basically supposing that there are “alternate realities” or “dimensions of time and space (alternate universes)” and that just because something appears to be a “coincidence” or “chance occurrence” it is really just a cause and effect scenario that can’t been recognized (do to the fact that it is from an alternate universe)?

Absolutely, although we don't have to invoke exotic concepts, like "alternative realities" or whatever. "What is hidden from view" will do.

All throughout history the human race has progressively widened and deepened its knowledge of the world by gradually unconvering what has previously been hidden. I see no reason why this process suddenly has to stop just because we have reached the quantum realm or because we happen to observe what we think are simultaneous or chance events. If the human race had confined itself to the view that things just happen by chance or magic or non-causality, then science would never have got off the ground in the first place. We would still living in grass huts and dying at the age of thirty.

Logically, it is impossible for things to arise uncaused, so I already know that everything has causes. Thus, whenever I see something that I can't initially explain, I naturally begin to look for its causes. And usually I find them.

I think that what you are saying is totally possible, but I don’t see how it is more grounded in logic than just supposing that the moment has a spontaneous variable that exists beyond cause and effect (but in concurrence with it). This spontaneous variable might not necessarily come from an alternate universe but could simply exist as a free form element without a birth and death, an A and a B, a cause and effect, or any chain of connecting occurrences that form a narrative. Is it possible that this spontaneous variable is simply a product of any given moment and not a product of a past and a present (which is what cause and effect is am I right)?
Well, let's investigate this. What is an example of a "spontaneous variable" or "free-form element"? I personally can't conceive of one.

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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn »

cosmic_prostitute wrote:
Do you feel that you have an ultimate understanding of everything?
Yes.

Do you no longer feel a sense mystery in your life?

There is plenty of mystery in my life. For example, what happened before the Big Bang? How will the observable universe end? Will the human race survive the next hundred years? Why are people so resistent to truth? And so on. There are loads of mysteries of this kind, and always will be.

But stepping away from all this and taking in the bigger picture, I can't really describe God itself as a mystery. I can use terms like glory, magnificence, timelessness, omnipotence, freedom, spontaneity, joy, and so on, in connection to God - but not mystery, no.

A mystery is basically an unresolved problem. But once you perceive the formless nature of God, you realize the great truth that there is essentially nothing to resolve.

Do you feel existence is an entirely rational occurrence that can be summed up beautifully using the powers of logic?
There is nothing to sum up in the first place.

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

DQ:
I agree it is important to recognize that we are all actual, breathing, human beings. That is why, for example, Kevin, Dan, and I have been open with our lives, publishing our real names, photos, personal details, private letters, etc, on our various sites. We want to show that we are real people practising real philosophy. We're not anonymous entities hiding behind psuedonyms and engaging in "impersonal, alienated debates" for mere intellectual entertainment. What is discussed here on this forum is intimately connected to real life for us.
I respect you for that.
CP:
Friendship is difficult, it requires a lot of suffering
WTF? Yes, that's a question, not just a notation. That is a diametric derivative of a definition. A friend contributes to your life, and generally makes you life easier. "Generally" means you have to reciprocate, but the result is a net gain for both individuals.
Nick:
Whenever I decide to strike up a philosophical conversation with a friend they either A. block it out and don't want to hear about it, or B. engage in the discussion, but their logic is so horrid that they get lost before they even make one statement.
When a guy starts acting like he's getting too interested in me too fast, my first line of defense is to bring up quantum physics.
AlyOshA:
every bit of logic I have suggests that unconsciousness is neither masculine nor feminine.
In my first career working in the hospitals, with only one exception, everyone we did CPR on was unconcious. Believe me - unconciousness does not look either masculine or feminine. It looks like inert matter.
CP:
To be feminine is to believe things via obedience to emotions and to remain uncertain via obedience to emotions.
Those are old-fashioned ideas. Please see and think for yourself. Don't just take whatever you were taught for granted. You have a good brain - use it to think with, not just to remember with.
CP:
According to oriental philosophy, irrationality is feminine and rationality is masculine.
According to the last generation of oriental practice, if a female is born, it should be discarded. Now a lot of oriental men are having difficulty finding a wife in their country. Fortunatly Americans adopted a lot of oriental girls, but they have been Americanized. I suspect that oriental philosophy will be changing rather abruptly.
CP:
Great feelings and sensations are not conscious, but we can be conscious of our relationship to them - - we must be -- otherwise we become entrammeled and enslaved to the more inferior sensuality of wordly gimmicks, of irrational thoughts, of disney world, of gambling, drug, Jesus our savior, sex, new agey beliefs, we become suicide bombers, we vote for Kallen on American Idol, we eat 5 big macs in one week, etc, etc...
I almost totally agree. If I change the wording slightly (therefore the meaning ) to "Great feelings and sensations are not usually conscious, and are not concious to average people" then I like the statement even better. I think we can develop a skill for conciously feeling.
DQ:
the main influence is the first-hand knowledge of what kind of mentality is required to become wise - namely, single-mindedness, ruthlessness, idealism, courage, rationality, love of Truth, the ability to think non-emotionally, etc. Everything is extrapolated from that.
Single-mindedness does not lead to wisdom. Wisdom comes from a vast compilation. Reptiles are single-minded. If an alligator has your dog in it's mouth, you can go right up to it, attack it, and not be in danger.

The ability to think non-emotionally is remarkably valuable. If one must be single-minded to achieve non-emotional thinking, then yes, I now see where that could be a valid choice. A well-balanced person can multi-task it though.
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Post by David Quinn »

Elizabeth,
Single-mindedness does not lead to wisdom.
Not of itself, no. But when combined with a strong desire for ultimate understanding, good logical skills, and the courage to reject what is false, it becomes very powerful.

It is like a rocket trying to escape the earth's atmosphere. Unless it shoots powerfully upwards without wavering, it will never be able to reach outer space. If it loses steam half-way, it will only fall back to earth again.

If water drips long enough, it can cut through even the hardest of rock. The power of single-mindedness should never be underestimated.

The ability to think non-emotionally is remarkably valuable. If one must be single-minded to achieve non-emotional thinking, then yes, I now see where that could be a valid choice. A well-balanced person can multi-task it though.
What do you mean by multi-tasking in this context?

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AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

DQ:
If water drips long enough, it can cut through even the hardest of rock. The power of single-mindedness
So is single-mindedness and persistence sort of synonymous, in which case I agree that single-mindedness is important?
oriental practice oriental men oriental girls
Look I'm not politically correct or anything, but do we really have to say oriental. It just sounds really silly. Come on people oriental is a rug not a people.
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David Quinn
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Post by David Quinn »

Yes, they're synonymous. I prefer the term "single-mindedness" because it emphasizes the consciousness aspect - i.e. the task of keeping one's mind firmly fixed on God. It's more direct.

A title of one of Kierkegaard's books was, "Purity Of Heart Is To Will One thing."

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Last edited by David Quinn on Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

Here's a pretty common quote but I think it's quite nice:

Calvin Coolidge:
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Post by Ryan Rudolph »

AlyOshA wrote:
What type of green tea y'all drink?
Organic, I’m on a fairly strict diet. Nutrition is essential.

AlyOshA wrote:
CP bring those monsters out of the closet! Don't push them in the closet with all your rationality. Bring them out, face them, be with them, embrace them, then transcend them.
My biggest monster at this stage is probably the odd visits to a few professional ladies on the Internet, but its easier than actual relationships with most of the dingbat women I encounter, It's a quick fix.

I dont know how I would embrace this? maybe I could hug my computer monitor?

Quinn wrote:
A mystery is basically an unresolved problem. But once you perceive the formless nature of God, you realize the great truth that there is essentially nothing to resolve.
Okay, okay if you define it like that then yes.

Quinn wrote:
Here is nothing to sum up in the first place.
Yes I agree.
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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

Alyosha: Look I'm not politically correct or anything, but do we really have to say oriental. It just sounds really silly. Come on people oriental is a rug not a people.
Why is it ok to say a rug is oriental in origin, and not ideas?

It is you who seem to be a silly man, Aloysha.

Saying that the origin of a group of ideas is oriental doesnt sound silly when you realize that there is what we call 'occidental culture' and 'oriental culture'.

Masculine/feminine philosophy has it's origins in the 'orient' (taoism, confusianism most notably)

Occidental spirituality and philosophy had not fleshed out a masculine and feminine ideology, but rather, the occidental culture simply imported what had already been established in the orient.

How is this silly?

Using oriental to describe the origins of ideas is no more silly than using words like: china, Canada, Greeks, Taoists, etc, etc.
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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

Hi Elizabeth
Cory: Great feelings and sensations are not conscious, but we can be conscious of our relationship to them - - we must be -- otherwise we become entrammeled and enslaved to the more inferior sensuality of wordly gimmicks, of irrational thoughts, of disney world, of gambling, drug, Jesus our savior, sex, new agey beliefs, we become suicide bombers, we vote for Kallen on American Idol, we eat 5 big macs in one week, etc, etc...

Elizabeth: I almost totally agree. If I change the wording slightly to "Great feelings and sensations are not usually conscious, and are not conscious to average people" then I like the statement even better.
What makes you think feelings are conscious of the people who feel them?

Eliz: I think we can develop a skill for consciously feeling.
To me that sentence means: “we can be conscious of feeling”. (which is exactly what I originally said)

What is it you mean Eliz?

Are you advocating that we become 1) conscious of what we are feeling?

Or are you advocating 2) that we become conscious that our feelings are conscious of us?
AlyOshA
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Post by AlyOshA »

Who cares a word is just a word, I just think it sounds silly.
Orientals and the Orient
The term "Oriental" (from the Latin word for "Eastern") was originally used in Europe in reference to the Near East. It was later extended to the rest of Asia, but came to refer to East Asians in the 19th and 20th century US, where most Asians were Chinese (and later Japanese and Filipino). By the late 20th century, the term had gathered associations in North America with older attitudes now seen as outmoded, and was replaced with the term "Asian" as part of the updating of language concerning social identities[8], which critics have derided as political correctness.[9] Elsewhere in the English-speaking world, "Oriental" does not have such associations (except perhaps in Australia and among those exposed to the US use of the term).
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Post by David Quinn »

cosmic_prostitute,
DQ: There is nothing to sum up in the first place.

cp: Yes I agree.

You agree? So you have you solved all of the major philosophical questions, which the human race continues to find so imponderable, and successfully brought your philosophic quest to an end?

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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

A: Who cares a word is just a word, I just think it sounds silly.
Who cares? Yeah I know, its an irrational opinion and wasteful protest, but apparently you seem to care - considering you expressed your qualms about the word oriental twice already.

Hey, but if there were to be a 'silly police', I'd vote you chief.

Like I said in my first attempt to explain to you femininity -

irrationality isnt conscious of its own irrationality.

Thats why I consider a feminine person unconscious and irrational.
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Post by Ryan Rudolph »

David Quinn wrote:
You agree? So you have you solved all of the major philosophical questions, which the human race continues to find so imponderable, and successfully brought your philosophic quest to an end?
Yes, there are a few imperfections that I have come to accept, but my search is finished. I don’t want anything out of life besides basic necessity, I haven’t been a slave to immature emotions for quite some time.

On a daily basis, usually at night, I continue to touch that state which is beyond all thought, beyond the rational and the irrational.

My only problem is certain experiences which disrupt the psychological calmness in the center of the body, usually this is caused by overly stimulating/exciting experiences.

This is something I’m continually diligent about, but as far as the search goes, what is there to search for after one has touched that timeless state…?
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