DQ's made it abundantly clear that women cannot reach enlightenment at all, short of being reborn as men. There is nothing "heavily disguised" about it. Given that there are clear and obvious differences between the ways the sexes think, unless you yourself are enlightened, and hence know precisely what enlightenment is, I cannot see how you could begin to make a coherent argument against his position.
It was said 2500 years ago.
When, in the Male Myth...Women were 'ranked' equally to cattle and sheep...
When Women were 'goods and chattels' and were 'bought and sold'...
As someone said, unless you are enlightened yourself, you are in no position to judge women's qualifications for enlightenment.
That is merely justification...you can't keep pulling that stunt...it's so condescending...patronising.
I can imagine a Scenario where a Women's lobby, representing the interests of females who make up 50% of taxpayers...could call for the Convening of a Hearing with a Social Security Tribunal in order to ask 'Why should QRS be enabled to exploit the Dole to denigrate Women in a Public Forum?
It would be Hilarious to watch you elucidate your 'endless regress of Justifiers' there in that setting...
'Because it's Logic Judge.'
'Because Buddha said Judge.'
'Because Kierkeggard said Judge.'
'You would know if you were enlightened Judge but you aren't.'
As someone said, unless you are enlightened yourself, you are in no position to judge women's qualifications for enlightenment.
If you were enlightened, you would not find it necessary to denigrate other human beings.
================================================
114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."
Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."
- Gospels of Thomas
When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."
- Gospels of Thomas
O guiding night!
O night more lovely than the dawn!
O night that has united
the Lover with his beloved,
transforming the beloved in her Lover.
- The Dark Night of the Soul
Johnny take a walk
With your sister, the moon
Let her pale light in
To fill up your room
You've been living underground
Eating from a can
You've been running away
From what you don't understand
Love
She's slipping
You're sliding down
She'll be there
When you hit the ground
- Mysterious Ways
In illustration 1, we have a picture of man's inner soul world. In the lower part of the soul we see a triple fountain which pours forth the threefold soul-substance - the Virgin's Milk ( the feminine receptive lunar forces in the soul), the Spring of Vinegar (the masculine sharp, penetrating solar forces in the soul) and the Aqua Vitae, the water of life (the inner source of soul energies). These three streams pour forth from the head of the fountain, at the central point of the soul, and stream down merging together in the basin at the lowest part of the soul. This vessel contains the primal substance of the soul forces, the Inner Mercury, the Mercury of the Philosophers, that is one and yet is composed of these three streams.
Thus we have here a picture of the unintegrated soul realm of man. The three streams pour down from the heart centre into the lower soul world, but are cut off from a balanced direct connection with the upper soul, the realm of the soul that can touch upon the spiritual. The only connection with this upper soul initially is through the unintegrated polarity of the lunar and solar streams within the soul.
-- Alchemy
In the first stage, Eve, the anima is indistinguishable from the personal mother. The man cannot function well without a close tie to a woman. In the second stage, personified in the historical figure of Helen of Troy, the anima is a collective and ideal sexual image ("All is dross that is not Helen"-Marlowe). The third stage, Mary, manifests in religious feelings and a capacity for lasting relationships. In the fourth stage, as Sophia (called Wisdom in the Bible), a man's anima functions as a guide to the inner life, mediating to consciousness the contents of the unconscious.
-- The Anima
I was sent forth from the power,
and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
and I have been found among those who seek after me.
Look upon me, you who reflect upon me,
and you hearers, hear me.
You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
And do not banish me from your sight.
And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard! Do not be ignorant of me.
For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me...
-- The Thunder, Perfect Mind
I am aware of only one guide who can take you safely into the Abyss and back out again. Careful what you discard as worthless (or inferior), Kevin. The key to the treasure, is the treasure.
Last edited by spiritual_emergency on Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.
spiritual_emergency wrote:A hallmark characteristic of those who are further along the path is compassion, Nick. Should you encounter an "enlightened" teacher who does not both speak of and actively practice compassion, I suggest you run in the opposite direction.
OK, so how is this infamous "enlightened" teacher you are refering to, not speaking and actively practicing compassion?
Should you encounter an "enlightened" teacher who does not both speak of and actively practice compassion, I suggest you run in the opposite direction.
In my experience, the ones that speak of it are generally the ones that don't have it. But if they practice it...then they are cool of course.
Also, it's not hard to tell what compassion is. It's good. When someone's doing something not good, for your apparent good (so they say), that is not compassion. It's not "tough love". It's just their stupid delusions that they're imposing on you.
But altogether, I think anytime you encounter a spiritual teacher you shouldn't listen to them. Or maybe listen, but take it all with a huge grain of salt...because everything in the world is experienced by YOU and justified by YOU. You are your own spiritual teacher...whatever that name means. No one else "walks the path" (lives) for you.
Everyone is selfish and they all live for themselves...even the supposed egoless people of the world. I have yet to meet a truly selfless person...yet to see true compassion.
Compassion is for self as well as others. True compassion is feeling the pain ogf others and helping if that is the true thing to do , true to self and others
and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
and I have been found among those who seek after me.
Look upon me, you who reflect upon me,
and you hearers, hear me.
You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
And do not banish me from your sight.
And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard!
Do not be ignorant of me.
For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
And he is my offspring in (due) time,
and my power is from him.
I am the staff of his power in his youth,
and he is the rod of my old age.
And whatever he wills happens to me.
I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.
Why, you who hate me, do you love me,
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me, confess me,
and you who confess me, deny me.
You who tell the truth about me, lie about me,
and you who have lied about me, tell the truth about me.
You who know me, be ignorant of me,
and those who have not known me, let them know me.
For I am knowledge and ignorance.
I am shame and boldness.
I am shameless; I am ashamed.
I am strength and I am fear.
I am war and peace.
Give heed to me.
I am the one who is disgraced and the great one.
Give heed to my poverty and my wealth.
Do not be arrogant to me when I am cast out upon the earth,
and you will find me in those that are to come.
And do not look upon me on the dung-heap
nor go and leave me cast out,
and you will find me in the kingdoms.
And do not look upon me when I am cast out among those who
are disgraced and in the least places,
nor laugh at me.
And do not cast me out among those who are slain in violence.
But I, I am compassionate and I am cruel.
Be on your guard!
Do not hate my obedience
and do not love my self-control.
In my weakness, do not forsake me,
and do not be afraid of my power.
For why do you despise my fear
and curse my pride?
But I am she who exists in all fears
and strength in trembling.
I am she who is weak,
and I am well in a pleasant place.
I am senseless and I am wise.
Why have you hated me in your counsels?
For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
and I shall appear and speak.
Why then have you hated me, you Greeks?
Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
For I am the wisdom of the Greeks
and the knowledge of the barbarians.
I am the judgement of the Greeks and of the barbarians.
I am the one whose image is great in Egypt
and the one who has no image among the barbarians.
I am the one who has been hated everywhere
and who has been loved everywhere.
I am the one whom they call Life,
and you have called Death.
I am the one whom they call Law,
and you have called Lawlessness.
I am the one whom you have pursued,
and I am the one whom you have seized.
I am the one whom you have scattered,
and you have gathered me together.
I am the one before whom you have been ashamed,
and you have been shameless to me.
I am she who does not keep festival,
and I am she whose festivals are many.
I, I am godless,
and I am the one whose God is great.
I am the one whom you have reflected upon,
and you have scorned me.
I am unlearned,
and they learn from me.
I am the one that you have despised,
and you reflect upon me.
I am the one whom you have hidden from,
and you appear to me.
But whenever you hide yourselves,
I myself will appear.
For whenever you appear,
I myself will hide from you.
Those who have [...] to it [...] senselessly [...].
Take me [... understanding] from grief.
and take me to yourselves from understanding and grief.
And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin,
and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.
Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly;
and out of shamelessness and shame,
upbraid my members in yourselves.
And come forward to me, you who know me
and you who know my members,
and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.
Come forward to childhood,
and do not despise it because it is small and it is little.
And do not turn away greatnesses in some parts from the smallnesses,
for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.
Why do you curse me and honor me?
You have wounded and you have had mercy.
Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have known.
And do not cast anyone out nor turn anyone away
[...] turn you away and [... know] him not.
[...].
What is mine [...].
I know the first ones and those after them know me.
But I am the mind of [...] and the rest of [...].
I am the knowledge of my inquiry,
and the finding of those who seek after me,
and the command of those who ask of me,
and the power of the powers in my knowledge
of the angels, who have been sent at my word,
and of gods in their seasons by my counsel,
and of spirits of every man who exists with me,
and of women who dwell within me.
I am the one who is honored, and who is praised,
and who is despised scornfully.
I am peace,
and war has come because of me.
And I am an alien and a citizen.
I am the substance and the one who has no substance.
Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me,
and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.
Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me,
and those who are far away from me are the ones who have known me.
On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me,
and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.
[I am ...] within.
[I am ...] of the natures.
I am [...] of the creation of the spirits.
[...] request of the souls.
I am control and the uncontrollable.
I am the union and the dissolution.
I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.
I am the one below,
and they come up to me.
I am the judgment and the acquittal.
I, I am sinless,
and the root of sin derives from me.
I am lust in (outward) appearance,
and interior self-control exists within me.
I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone
and the speech which cannot be grasped.
I am a mute who does not speak,
and great is my multitude of words.
Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
I am she who cries out,
and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.
I prepare the bread and my mind within.
I am the knowledge of my name.
I am the one who cries out,
and I listen.
I appear and [...] walk in [...] seal of my [...].
I am [...] the defense [...].
I am the one who is called Truth
and iniquity [...].
You honor me [...] and you whisper against me.
You who are vanquished, judge them (who vanquish you)
before they give judgment against you,
because the judge and partiality exist in you.
If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you?
Or, if you are acquitted by him, who will be able to detain you?
For what is inside of you is what is outside of you,
and the one who fashions you on the outside
is the one who shaped the inside of you.
And what you see outside of you, you see inside of you;
it is visible and it is your garment.
Hear me, you hearers
and learn of my words, you who know me.
I am the hearing that is attainable to everything;
I am the speech that cannot be grasped.
I am the name of the sound
and the sound of the name.
I am the sign of the letter
and the designation of the division.
And I [...].
(3 lines missing)
[...] light [...].
[...] hearers [...] to you
[...] the great power.
And [...] will not move the name.
[...] to the one who created me.
And I will speak his name.
Look then at his words
and all the writings which have been completed.
Give heed then, you hearers
and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.
For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting place.
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.
If that's all the spiritual journey is, then it's absolutely pointless. People don't want to be peeled, and revealed. They always are what they are at the core, anyway, so who cares?
There is no self to reveal. Everyone knows who they are already. When they lose their ego (in your definition) they see that they always knew.
I've peeled everything away, and revealed myself to myself, and I stand naked and there's no good that comes from this. I would never wish it upon anyone to go through the spiritual journey.
I've been broken down and rebuilt, too, and didn't learn much that was of any use. I am back where I began...stupid. I've climbed the mountains of wisdom, and at the top I am the same. All I think is "Why have I been climbing?"
There's no peace in this. It doesn't make me a better person. We can all be good people without this.
So I fail to see the point. Sorry, there must be something wrong with me....
I was trying to read Thunder, Perfect Mind, which I have read before and tried to grasp a meaning of it, but I haven't found a meaning of it. It's certainly powerful prose, but what does it mean to you spiritual emergency? What is its relevance? How can I understand it? Should I?
There was a spiritual emergency recall of all teachings. Yeah, they found a flaw or two which were causing problems for some customers. The new line of spiritual teachings will be released next year.
