To The Mystical Geniuses

[millipodium]

Dear geniuses of the "Attachment to anything is bad, therefore to truly be good, one must be anti everything, because to be pro anything is to have an attachment to it." persuasion. Your view is idiotic. Your nature is nihilistic.

Anyone who argues with corey_patrick is eventually wrong through being attached to their own opinion. Corey_Patrick is truly an unbeatable adversary, especially when he allows himself preemptive dehumanization. "so called palestinians" :rolleyes:

The only wrong is believing you're right. Work makes you free, just look at china.

Where is the Love

Blackeyed Peas, WHere is the love

What's wrong with the world mama?
People living like aint got no mamas
I think the whole worlds addicted to the drama
Only attracted to the things that bring you trauma
Overseas yeah we tryin to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin
In the USA the big CIA the Bloodz and the Crips and the KKK
But if you only have love for your own race
Then you only leave space to discriminate
And to discriminate only generates hate
And if you hatin you're bound to get irate
Yeah madness is what you demonstrate
And that's exactly how anger works and operates
You gotta have love just to set it straight
Take control of your mind and meditate
Let your soul gravitate to the love y'all

People killing people dying
Children hurtin you hear them crying
Can you practice what you preach
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father Father Father help us
Send some guidance from above
Cause people got me got me questioning
Where is the love?(where is the lovex3)(the love2x)

It just ain't the same all ways have changed
New days are strange is the world the insane?
If love and peace so strong
Why are there pieces of love that don't belong
Nations dropping bombs
Chemical gases filling lungs of little ones
With ongoing suffering
As the youth die young
So ask yourself is the loving really strong?
So I can ask myself really what is going wrong
With this world that we living in
People keep on giving in
Makin wrong decisions
Only visions of them livin and
Not respecting each other
Deny thy brother
The wars' going on but the reasons' undercover
The truth is kept secret
Swept under the rug
If you never know truth
Then you never know love
Where's the love y'all?(I don't know)
Where's the truth y'all?(I don't know)
Where's the love y'all?

People killing people dying
Children hurtin you hear them crying
Can practice what you preach
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father father father help us
Send some guidance from above
Cause people got me got me questioning
Where is the love?(where is the lovex3)(the lovex2)

I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder
As I'm getting older y'all people get colder
Most of us only care about money makin
Selfishness got us followin the wrong direction
Wrong information always shown by the media
Negative images is the main criteria
Infecting their young minds faster than bacteria
Kids wanna act like what the see in the cinema
Whatever happened to the values of humanity
Whatever happened to the fairness and equality
Instead of spreading love, we're spreading anomosity
Lack of understanding, leading us away from unity
That's the reason why sometimes I'm feeling under
That's the reason why sometimes I'm feeling down
It's no wonder why sometimes I'm feeling under
I gotta keep my faith alive, until love is found

People killing people dying
Children hurtin you hear them crying
Can you practice what you preach
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father Father Father help us
Send some guidance from above
Cause people got me got me questioning
Where is the love?(fade)

[Cory Duchesne]

Milli: The only wrong is believing you're right.

Do I really need to point out to you the absurdity implied in uttering this motto given that this post (as all your post are) is an argument in favor of a particular point of view?

You are trying to prove that i'm wrong by waving a slogan that, if heeded to, undermines your very attempt at being right.

Like I said before, you have a very difficult time expressing yourself without coming off as contradictory.

Milli: Work makes you free, just look at china.

I also believe in the importance of hard work, however, one must see what ones hard work is contributing to.

Some work (actually most work) isnt worth doing.

If one doesnt put just as much energy toward being wise as they do toward work, one may very well end up contributing to a soceity that is as foolishly overblown as China is.

China is largely unsustainable and parasitic.

Not that i'm against it. The world can't be any other way than it is.

I don't believe that choice is the fundamental thing that is repsonsible for the quality of peoples actions.

Everything is determined and my only responsiblity is to follow my inclinations.

So far I've been fairly inclined to investigate the truth of the perdicament I'm in.

What perdicament?

Being alive.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Milli wrote:

Milli: Work makes you free, just look at china.

You can either say yes to life or no to life. Most Chinese have said yes to life and look at the mess the country is in. They have said yes to unbridled reproduction, family, unrestrained capitalism and unrestrained globalization within their borders.

The result is that they have become the ‘bitch’ to the western world. China is enslaved to manufacture the goods/products that that the west demands.

And the conditions are usually quite inhuman.

China is stuck in slavery because their country is so ghastly overpopulated that they are vulnerable to exploitation from outsiders because they are incapable of sustaining life on their own.

The unbridled urbanization has destroyed a large percentage of China’s life sustaining resources. IE: fresh water, air, soil, etc…

China is everything the world needs to move away from if humanity is to have any hope at all.

And this will only come through a strong negation of life. Negation is Nihilism and Nihilism is the essence of wisdom.

[Cory Duchesne]

It seems to me that one should not make known ones position to others without carefully contemplating the definitions of the terms that one uses to describe ones position.

For example, Milli came on this board quite feverent about his opposition to elitism, however, by examining the definition closely in contrast to the way milli would use the word in his posts, it became obvious to me that Milli equated being elitist with regarding oneself as superior to others.

After pointing out to milli that, since his inception, he had been speaking to many people as if they were his inferriors, him and I came to an agreement that regarding oneself as superior and being elitist are two different things.

Originally I agreed with him that regarding oneself as superior may be ok, whereas elitism is always bad.

However, I contemplated the definition more thouroughly, and I changed my mind.

Perhaps I may one day change my mind again one day.

As it stands, elitism seems to be the consequence of being strongly attatched to a point of view.

And having a strong attatchment to point of views seems neccesary.

Anyways,

How about we contemplate:

Nihilism

a) An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.

Well, to borrow from Dan Rowden, it seems to me that illusions are real, and anything real; an illusion.

b) A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.

I think facts can be known and communicated.

c) Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief.

This seems ok

D) The belief that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future improvement.

Well, to set out on a mission to destroy existing political institutions (which are rooted in the emotions and minds of a collective people) seems like flying up to a cloud in a plane in order to forever destroy it by shooting it with guns.

As if a political structure is located somewhere in particular!

There is only the life of the individual whose actions remove momentum or give momentum to.....what exactly?

E) also Nihilism A diffuse, revolutionary movement of mid 19th-century Russia that scorned authority and tradition and believed in reason, materialism, and radical change in society and government through terrorism and assassination.

Scorning authority and tradition, sure. Reason, materialism(cause and effect) and radical change, sure.

Terrorism and assasination? No thanks.

F) Psychiatry. A delusion, experienced in some mental disorders, that the world or one's mind, body, or self does not exist.

Hmmmm.....thats peculiar.

[Ryan Rudolph]

How about this for a definition:

Nililism: An extreme form of skepticism/negation that denies the validity of most commonly accepted cultural norms/psychological norms.

[bert]

How about this for a definition:

Nililism: An extreme form of skepticism/negation that denies the validity of most commonly accepted cultural norms/psychological norms.

Nililism is the objection to current moral standards and established beliefs without offering an alternative or a solution.

[bert]

it has much to do with the punk revival and after that chaos magicians.
but it already existed with in Egyptian orders a long time ago.they were also assassins.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Bert wrote:

Nililism is the objection to current moral standards and established beliefs without offering an alternative or a solution.

The objection is the solution.

[Cory Duchesne]

Bert: Nililism is the objection to current moral standards and established beliefs without offering an alternative or a solution.

It's the 'without offering an alternative or a solution' that I think gives nihilism a bad rap, and rightly so.

My behavior merely resembles nihilism in that I have objected to current moral standards and established beliefs, but only 'as a means' to see clearly and thus potentially find a solution.

And it seems to me that simply stripping away the mind and being nothing is largely the solution.

However, methods of livelihood/survival is what has intrigued me for the past 2 years.

[millipodium]

Bert: Nililism is the objection to current moral standards and established beliefs without offering an alternative or a solution.

It's the 'without offering an alternative or a solution' that I think gives nihilism a bad rap, and rightly so.

LOL. Right so. Being a negative dick head who's "position" on any issue is "well, you just think you're right, and that's an attachment and attachment is bad. So you are bad." is just too reductionist and easy. Plus you just end up being a jerk, with two years of being intrigued by survival

My behavior merely resembles nihilism in that I have objected to current moral standards and established beliefs, but only 'as a means' to see clearly and thus potentially find a solution.

And it seems to me that simply stripping away the mind and being nothing is largely the solution.

However, methods of livelihood/survival is what has intrigued me for the past 2 years.

Being centered and all that helps you focus, no doubt, and relieves stress undoubtedly, but what is an insight with no object?

[millipodium]

Bert: Nililism is the objection to current moral standards and established beliefs without offering an alternative or a solution.

It's the 'without offering an alternative or a solution' that I think gives nihilism a bad rap, and rightly so.

LOL. Rightly so. Being a negative dick head who's "position" on any issue is "well, you just think you're right, and that's an attachment and attachment is bad. So you are bad." is just too reductionist and easy. Plus you just end up being a jerk, with two years of being intrigued by survival under your belt.

My behavior merely resembles nihilism in that I have objected to current moral standards and established beliefs, but only 'as a means' to see clearly and thus potentially find a solution.

And it seems to me that simply stripping away the mind and being nothing is largely the solution.

However, methods of livelihood/survival is what has intrigued me for the past 2 years.

Being centered and all that helps you focus, no doubt, and relieves stress undoubtedly, but what is an insight with no object?

[Dan Rowden]

Milli wrote:

Dear geniuses of the "Attachment to anything is bad, therefore to truly be good, one must be anti everything, because to be pro anything is to have an attachment to it." persuasion. Your view is idiotic. Your nature is nihilistic.

Your understanding of non-attachment, and therefore of our position regarding it, is non-existent.

And nihilism is impossible.


Dan Rowden

[millipodium]

Milli wrote:

Dear geniuses of the "Attachment to anything is bad, therefore to truly be good, one must be anti everything, because to be pro anything is to have an attachment to it." persuasion. Your view is idiotic. Your nature is nihilistic.

Your understanding of non-attachment, and therefore of our position regarding it, is non-existent.

And nihilism is impossible.


Dan Rowden

I think i have your position thoroughly documented in my preceding post. It's kiddie stuff. Questionable verbal bromides with vague terms describe even vaguer concepts where the CONCLUSION must always be "everything is wrong". You guys are better than this. I'm offering you a pearl.

[millipodium]

It seems to me that one should not make known ones position to others without carefully contemplating the definitions of the terms that one uses to describe ones position.

For example, Milli came on this board quite feverent about his opposition to elitism, however, by examining the definition closely in contrast to the way milli would use the word in his posts, it became obvious to me that Milli equated being elitist with regarding oneself as superior to others.

After pointing out to milli that, since his inception, he had been speaking to many people as if they were his inferriors, him and I came to an agreement that regarding oneself as superior and being elitist are two different things.

No. I consistently made the distintion that one CAN feel superior in some way but STILL not be an elitist if one doesn't demand more than fair treatment. But I undestand you must believe you've won this argument, because to recognize the actual butt-beating you're receiving would shatter you.

Originally I agreed with him that regarding oneself as superior may be ok, whereas elitism is always bad.

However, I contemplated the definition more thouroughly, and I changed my mind.

Perhaps I may one day change my mind again one day.

As it stands, elitism seems to be the consequence of being strongly attatched to a point of view.

And having a strong attatchment to point of views seems neccesary.

Anyways,
.

As it stands, you're a dip.

[Cory Duchesne]

Milli: Being a negative dick head who's "position" on any issue is "well, you just think you're right, and that's an attachment and attachment is bad. So you are bad."

Actually my first post on this very thread stated “having a strong attachment to point of views seems necessary.”

So again, you seem to enjoy turning a blind eye to the reality that is right in front of you, probably because most of your energy goes into ‘inventing’ reasons to believe that I’m the evil villain and you are the noble hero.

Milli: Being centered and all that helps you focus, no doubt, and relieves stress undoubtedly, but what is an insight with no object?

Why don’t you just tell us what it is that you are urging us to do? (besides bob our heads smiling idiotically to the ‘black eyed peas’ or Billy Joel)

Obviously you feel very strongly that we are missing out on something very important.

What is your plan for saving humanity?

[millipodium]

Milli: Being a negative dick head who's "position" on any issue is "well, you just think you're right, and that's an attachment and attachment is bad. So you are bad."

Actually my first post on this very thread stated “having a strong attachment to point of views seems necessary.”

So again, you seem to enjoy turning a blind eye to the reality that is right in front of you, probably because most of your energy goes into ‘inventing’ reasons to believe that I’m the evil villain and you are the noble hero.

Milli: Being centered and all that helps you focus, no doubt, and relieves stress undoubtedly, but what is an insight with no object?

Why don’t you just tell us what it is that you are urging us to do? (besides bob our heads smiling idiotically to the ‘black eyed peas’ or Billy Joel)

Obviously you feel very strongly that we are missing out on something very important.

What is your plan for saving humanity?

Conquering the Big Four

Elitism
Dehumanization
Deception
Intimidation

These are the four characteristic known to be an operational definition of devilish machinations.

[Cory Duchesne]

I consistently made the distintion that one CAN feel superior in some way but STILL not be an elitist if one doesn't demand more than fair treatment.

You see, this usage of the word 'fair' rather than 'favorable' treatment is a desperate fabrication on your part.

'Favorable' treatment is what you should be saying, but you've substitued favorable treatment with 'fair' treatment.

Favorable: warm, affectionate, friendly, supportive.

Why did you do substitute fair with favorable?

And as for your consistent attempts to make a distinction between regarding oneself as superior and elitism, I would say that there was a particular moment back on the 'hard line' thread when you (by means of my misguided leadership and encouragement) made the transition from believing that elitism meant regarding oneself as superior, to a more subtle yet still incorrect definition.

So basically, with my misguided psuedo-socratic tutelage, you went from a more crude wrongness to a a bit more of a refined wrongness. But being wrong is being wrong, regadless of how much more subtle one wrong may be from the other.

And so, I must ask; when did Milli start stressing the distinction between elitism and superiority? He did so after I introduced him to the pleasant, wishful illusion. He walked behind me as I cleared the path. Then I realized I was going the wrong direction. Milli not only refused to follow me in the right direction, but he decided to proudly take credit for the original path that I cleared - a path leading to nowhere but endless strife and resentment.

It was only wishful thinking Milli. I would have liked to believe we were on the right path too.

But unlike you, I can easily admit my mistakes and move on.

Milli: but as it stands, your a dip

Why, how friendly, warm, affectionate, and supportive of you, milli!

As it stands, you are an elitist.

[Cory Duchesne]

Cory: What is your plan for saving humanity?


Milli: Conquering the Big Four

Elitism
Dehumanization
Deception
Intimidation

Ok, so how do you plan on conquering these qualities whose essences are within each person?

[millipodium]

I consistently made the distintion that one CAN feel superior in some way but STILL not be an elitist if one doesn't demand more than fair treatment.

You see, this usage of the word 'fair' rather than 'favorable' treatment is a desperate fabrication on your part.

'Favorable' treatment is what you should be saying, but you've substitued favorable treatment with 'fair' treatment.

Favorable: warm, affectionate, friendly, supportive.

Why did you do substitute fair with favorable?

And as for your consistent attempts to make a distinction between regarding oneself as superior and elitism, I would say that there was a particular moment back on the 'hard line' thread when you (by means of my misguided leadership and encouragement) made the transition from believing that elitism meant regarding oneself as superior, to a more subtle yet still incorrect definition.

So basically, with my misguided psuedo-socratic tutelage, you went from a more crude wrongness to a a bit more of a refined wrongness. But being wrong is being wrong, regadless of how much more subtle one wrong may be from the other.

And so, I must ask; when did Milli start stressing the distinction between elitism and superiority? He did so after I introduced him to the pleasant, wishful illusion. He walked behind me as I cleared the path. Then I realized I was going the wrong direction. Milli not only refused to follow me in the right direction, but he decided to proudly take credit for the original path that I cleared - a path leading to nowhere but endless strife and resentment.

It was only wishful thinking Milli. I would have liked to believe we were on the right path too.

But unlike you, I can easily admit my mistakes and move on.

Milli: but as it stands, your a dip

Why, how friendly, warm, affectionate, and supportive of you, milli!

As it stands, you are an elitist.

NO. YOU'RE saying that treatments most would consider FAIR, such as a higher wage for a more scarce labor recourse, is FAVORABLE. FAVORABLE does not apply in the context in which you are using it. Hence, you are self negating.

[David Quinn]

The philosophy of non-attachment is a consequence of the realization that all things are illusory. Attachment is "bad" because it is generated out of ignorance of the nature of Reality (i.e. that all things are illusory). Attachment also distorts one's perceptions, forces the mind to develop mental blocks and engage in irrationality, and constitutes the primary cause of war, violence, and misery.

Truthful people become increasingly non-attached to things as a matter of course. It is a natural process of growth, provided that one's attachments don't stunt it.

-

[Cory Duchesne]

milli: NO. YOU'RE saying that treatments most would consider FAIR, such as a higher wage for a more scarce labor recourse, is FAVORABLE. FAVORABLE does not apply in the context in which you are using it. Hence, you are self negating.

You may consider it FAIR treatment, but I think most people in the working world would agree that life is not fair, in fact, its tremendously depressing and despairing for most people to get paid so little for working such terrible jobs.

A friend of mine doesnt know how to play an instrument, she sings not too good, and she is fairly overweight, but she is constantly hoping to be a music performer/entertainer.

You can say that, due to her inherent inadequecy for the job, it would be cruel if she was given a recording contract, an album and touring schedule - - but she would take the opportunity if it was offered gladly, because her life is so miserable due to her being percieved as inferior and feeling like she is inferior. She has spent her whole life being ignored by the more 'able', 'confident' and 'out-going' people that get the favorable treatment.

Personally, I give her more warmth, friendliness, support and encouragement then I do the more sexier or happy girls that come and go in my life.

The reason is because I see this depressed and aesthetically un-appealing friend of mine as having more potential to be truthful then the people who have it easier.

She is more truthful!

And thus, due to percieving her as superior(in regards to the potential to be honest), I give her more favorable treatment than the other girls who have the goods to get themselves a man.

However, that is not to say that I have great faith in her that she will becoming even remotely enlightened. I highly doubt it, and as I become more wise, I neglect her more and more in order to focus my efforts on those who have more of a chance.

Abandoning (but by no means abusing) people can be the vital ingredient for their growth anyway.

Too much friendliness, support and warmth turns people rotten

That's why I find Woody Allens comments on lesbian parenting so funny.

2 mothers? Most people don't survive one.


Mothers who are very feminine - warm, affectionate, supportive have been the ruin of many a young man.

Anyways, as for people getting 'fair' treatment in the work place.

Most people are plagued by envy, depression and resentment for the living conditions that they get stuck with because of their inferior upbringing, genetics, appearances and skills.

So you may call society fair, but the majority of people in society at least in Canada/US, hate their jobs, they hate their lives, and they wish they had the job of who they percieve as the more superior person, who they feel gets more favorable treatment.

And this superior man probably feels the same way! He wishes he was in the other mans shoes.

So, you may say that its for peoples own good that they don't get picked for the jobs that a better man is suited for.

Likewise, I say that elitism is for peoples own good, because it is the truth.

Denying elitism is escaping into illusion, and that is bad.

Illusions are pleasurable. The truth hurts.

[Cory Duchesne]

David Quinn wrote:

Truthful people become increasingly non-attached to things as a matter of course. It is a natural process of growth, provided that one's attachments don't stunt it.

David, You told me quite a few months ago that having a strong attatchement to truth itself was a requisite to being totally non-attatched.

I would be tolerant of a man who urged humanity to be free from elitism, but emphasized that the only way to be free from elitism is to be free from attatchment.

And to be free from attatchment demmands that one be attatched to the truth.

But if one was attatched to the truth, would it be the truth?

Regardless, milli is defending attatchment and denouncing elitisim.

Not to mention his way of communicating is not very friendly or supportive(and is thus elitist by definition).

[Tharan]

That is why it is called a journey, in some regards. Attachment to "truth," as defined by cause and effect and the illusory nature of reality, is necessary on an emotional level to varying degrees in people. Zen often talks about a moment of understanding, like a crack of lightning. Surely, it can happen that way. I also have had moments like this. They altered my course, but they did not take me all the way. But for myself, and apparetnly for most people, it is the gradual realignment of the emotional psyche in the traditional Mahayanist sense once an understand of "truth" has been made. So, that is what is meant when it is said that it is an attachment to truth that might inevitably lead one away from emotional attachments.

[millipodium]

David Quinn wrote:

But if one was attatched to the truth, would it be the truth?

The truth is true regardless. Your own zen buddhist zealotry denies itself. Cool. All you marginal geniuses stick with all this zenny crap. It'll keep you indoors and off the streets.

[Cory Duchesne]

Cory: But if one was attatched to the truth, would it be the truth?

Milli: The truth is true regardless.

But, is the truth a particular set of views?

For instance, it may very well be factual that 80% of the people who come out of prison in the US, go back in - - but if I'm attatched soley to that truth (along with a few other factual fragments) am I really attatched to the whole truth?

Is the whole truth attatchable? Or does an awareness of the whole truth, by nature, burn away all emotional attatchment?