Ankit Gupta wrote in the beginning of the thread,
I wonder if this notebook is a confirmation of the kundalini myths of yoga.
It shouldn't be a confirmation for you, because how do you know if Krishnamurti wasn't just making things up? Or perhaps he had a mental disorder. Unless you experience things for yourself, nothing should be confirmed.
It isn't like going to school and learning history, which you can then spout off as if you know something.
Matthew Alper points out in his book that some forms of epilepsy cause hyper-religiousness and mystical experiences.
Perhaps those instances are just the effects of higher levels of consciousness misdiagnosed as epilepsy. I wouldn't say that hyper religiousness can be caused by epilepsy...because what is causing the epilepsy? Perhaps it's hyper religiousness?
So I am wondering whether enlightenement leads to these strange and intense pains in the spine and head, which would give credence to the kundalini theory. Or Krishnamurti confused his epilepsy with the arising of the kundalini. Any comments? Did someone else also experienced these strange phenomenon concurrent with his/her enlightenment?
Anyone who becomes enlightened experiences the kundalini, because the signs and symptoms of kundalini is simply the physical effects of the enlightenment process. Perhaps someone that was very pure wouldn't experience the typical kundalini symptoms. Think of it like this - the kundalini is a purifier of the causes of delusion, and the symptoms (such as hearing a buzzing noise for instance) are the effects of the purification. When you're completely purified, there are no more effects of purification, so it could be said the kundalini is gone then.
I don't think of the kundalini as a precise thing, though. Some say it's an energy in the spine...I disagree with that. In fact, I try not to think of the kundalini at all anymore, because it's useless to think of it as a thing that purifies your body/mind, or as an energy. I prefer to think simply, that there are things which cause delusion and those things gradually dissolve, causing all sorts of strange experiences which usually can't be repeated.
To add onto that...any "mystical experience" is simply the body/mind being purified. It shouldn't be thought of as some state which you should attain. The enlightened state is already here, just covered over with all this shit. So when you get a glimpse of the enlightened state, or something close to it, it's not that great. It shouldn't be sought out.
Pain in the body, ringing in the ears, hypersensitivity, seeing ghosts...all those symptoms of a kundalini awakening are useless. They don't lead to enlightenment. They're just some things that you can experience "on the way".
Wild Fox Zen said,
I experienced an intense, but relatively minor kundalini rising. It didn't bust through the crown chakra, and I can't recall any enlightenment (having experienced that in a separate instance), just some fleeting ecstacy (I estimate about six hours), and a week-long endocrine burn-out. It's definitely not epilepsy, nor is it *caused* by enlightenment, but I can see how you might happen onto those associations.
This is definitely the wrong board to ask this. You'd get more relavent responses at an acupuncture or chi kung board--hell, even occultforums.com.
The people here probably have very little to no frame of reference for this sort of esotericism.
There aren't really body chakras. Sure, there are relative areas of the body which control certain mental aspects...but they usually change place, and their effects depend entirely on your state of mind at the time. So, it's best to not even think of 7 chakras on your spine. The energy doesn't even work that way...in my experience, it utilizes the entire nervous system...which is pretty much the entire body! And it doesn't necessarily rise up from the root to the top. Sometimes you can have a sensation in your hands, and no other area...sometimes only the throat...sometimes only the crown. During a big awakening, you may lose consciousness of your body as a specific thing because the energy will seem to melt you into everything else.
It's interesting you note the week long burn out...I had the same experience.
By the way, very few acupuncturists or chi kung people understand what happens with kundalini.
Most have people would have experienced a number of these symptoms throughout their lives, but they don't necessarily become any wiser through them.
That's because those are the symptoms. Like when you go into a restaurant and you smell a mouthwatering steak, it's not the smell you care about but the steak. So with the kundalini, it's not the manifestations which are important but what the kundalini is doing.
I'd say that kundalini is honesty. The more deeply honest you are with yourself, the more that you are purifying your body/mind. If you are being honest and see yourself doing something stupid, like hating someone for no good reason, and you actually contemplate and confront that stupidity...well that is the real work of kundalini. Not this crap about having mystical experiences.
So I would say: no, kundalini is unnecessary for the purpose of becoming enlightened.
I'd say it's totally necessary, but with all the stupid information out there about it it's basically rendered useless. Someone seeking enlightenment will definitely experience some weird things. Perhaps it's not good to label these things as "kundalini". There's too much useless crap about Hindu gods mixed in with this, where kundalini is the "descent of grace" and it is shakti "herself". Whatever.
I think the kundalini and the path can be summed up very simply: if you experience something weird, keep going.
Wild Fox Zen wrote,
The kundalini IS an enormous surge of bio-electric energy rushing straight up through your entire body and into your head. The rest may or not be sympotamatic, but are probably hinting at other types of chi emergence. And no, even kundalini, will not necesarily make you a wiser or better person. it will definitely make you different though.
There's always bio-electric energy rushing through the entire body. Sometimes you can experience it, and then a bunch of people call it "kundalini". Some say that once awakened, it's always awakened. Some say it awakens and goes back to sleep. Some say it doesn't exist.
I say let the person find out for themselves. A meditator will definitely experience some weird shit. I don't care what people call it. I don't think it's smart to make up some scientific system of thought as to what's happening. Shit happens! That's about as scientific as I prefer to get with this stuff. Some effects tend to stay a while, some last five seconds. All of that has nothing to do with enlightenment, though. Like I have said, they're just symptoms of purification. Purification of the body and mind...purification of the causes of delusion.
I just wanted to know if there is such a thing at all or is it a myth?
If you want to figure it out then sit down and remain absolutely still until you reach enlightenment.
Ankit also wrote,
Actually in the RajaYoga tradition it is said that if the kundalini goes through the crown chakra, enlightenment will result. This is a clear association of kundalini with enlightenemnt.
Sometimes it's good to believe in what various traditions say, because it's the truth, and sometimes it's bad to believe in the things they say because it's not true. This should be obvious. So knowing that, what makes you believe in the Raja Yoga tradition...and specifically that idea?
I've known people who have had the kundalini go through the crown chakra. They weren't enlightened. One guy could raise it by willing it, and lower it when he wanted to come out of his heightened state. Personally, I experience tingles at the top of my head all of the time. Sometimes I have experiences where it's as if the mind flips inside out. This stuff has nothing to do with enlightenment..which is the absence of delusion in our day to day experiences. These mystical experiences are just the effects of purification. Having energy go through your crown may or may not cause a mystical state of mind. But even having a mystical state of mind isn't enlightenment. It's the same as having a stupid state of mind...it's still just fluctuating phenomenon.
Anyway, I personally say that all of this should be from your own experience. Don't take my word for it. I may be full of shit. Raja yoga may be full of shit. Just figure it out on your own. If you want to know about the kundalini, then meditate and figure out your body's energy pathways. Find the truth of it, not what someone says is there. Everyone may have different experiences...but truly, whatever experience you are having is the only worthwhile one. Something that isn't there, when someone says it's there, is completely useless to you.
Kind of like when the average Christian talks to you about heaven or hell.
...I hope this cleared up a little bit of confusion on kundalini for the posters of the board. If it only created more, let me know. My writing may seem a little frazzled and out of it...that's because for the past 10 days I've been at a mind numbing conference.