Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Talking Ass » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:34 am

In the case of Yogananda, perhaps. For almost all Hindus the Vedas stand as the core human revelation. They are Divine, pre-existent, authoratative, pure and perfect. They come from the same Sacred Syllable which vibration has brought the cosmos into manifestation. They are derived, therefor, from the one, perfect and eternal Word. I think it was in the Holy Science (supposedly written by Yogananda's guru Sri Yuktesvar) that he wrote about the 'yugas', the great shift that occurs in the evolution of consciousness. According to the Vedas, we are in kali-yuga, a dark age, and most Hindu schools see that 'age' as progressing for a long, long time before it gradually shifts into the next age, an age of the beginning of illumination and awakening (which implies coming into possession, literally, of the 'keys to the kingdom': the secrets of the material manifestation, etc.). Then, things progress to a period of advanced consciousness, world-scale enlightenment, mastery of the material plane, etc. But, it comes about not through the self-will or willful striving of man, but only when man acquiesces to guidance by the divine.

But, Yuktesvar proposed a substantial change to the established doctrine of a million-year kali-yuga (a dark age that will continue a long, long time with no prospect of betterment)(actually, the pessimistic Vaishnavas say that in 10,000 years man will devolve into a sort of ape-like troll, having 'forgotten' his Divine origin because of his 'sinful activities', for them the only viable alternative is to live piously for now and reincarnate in a higher plane of existence, this one being far too problematic, with death, disease, quarrel and hypocrisy being rampant and out of control). The change that Yuktesvar proposed was that the original calculations for the duration of yugas was incorrect. The kali-yuga age started to shift to the beginning of enlightenment age in about 1700 with the first discoveries of electrical properties and other scientific discoveries of a 'gross material nature'. With the advance toward the Age of Enlightenment, other 'technologies' will become known and people will use them regularly. Not necessarily material but 'spiritual'.

Do you think this might be based on knowledge of ancient great cultures that went before us?
In the case of many Hindu schools, and certainly the Vaishnavas, yes. Krishna was on the planet 5000 years ago and there was a world-wide Vedic culture. They made their way around on mysterious, magical conveyances kind of like magic carpets, or riding huge swans that could move between different densities of material manifestation right up to the highest 'spiritual' manifestations. They had all the contrivances that we have now but they were spiritually derived and not (mere) material inventions. All this knowledge passed away, and they say that we are in a degenerative cycle (that will go on until the next Advent of a Krishna Avatar in 10,000 years).

what happened with them in terms of physical presence [?]
In Vaishnava mythology, the 'brahmanas' simply used mantric formulas to incarnate on 'higher planets'. Sort of like the 'brain-drain' Third-World countries suffer. The best and brightest get fed up with the riff-raff overrunning the place, engaging in non-pious and sinful activities, that they literally pulled up anchor and took up residence in another body, on another platform of existence. However, in Hindu lore, some 'Masters' promise never to leave the planet or even to abandon the material body. They maintain a material body that is 'deathless', and from that vantage instruct and nurture human consciousness.

Awakening to what? The realization that everything that begins will have an ending?
Well, from Yogananda's perspective, the awakening is nothing more than a reversal of the process of material manifestation. It is doing everything that we did to come into this plane of existence (from our unity in the 'Absolute' as y'all like to say) in reverse. Yoga is then a science of backing out of material manifestation. This places it in the early Vedic context insofar as the early mystics who received the Vedic Revelations were justifiably appalled by the way that life began and ended, and the unending levels of physical and emotional anguish in which humanity lives. The horror of it seems to have caused them to seek alternatives. The revelations they experienced, coming from Divine revelation, provided encoded messages about the nature of this reality, the different sorts of worlds that exist within the greater cosmos (tri-loka, etc). I think that Yogananda proposes that there is a mystical science that is essentially the process by which we wake up from this 'dream'. What you wake up to is to the knowledge that there is only one 'thing', and that is Divine Being. It is now, it was, and it will be, forever and ever. We never really separated from it, after all where could we 'go'? But, through inexplicable mysteries, our unity was forgotten and our life here is essentially a sort of 'bad dream', or a mediocre dream, or a revelatory dream.

Now, in the case of.....Oh shit!, I have GOT TO run, brother! They just brought me some fresh feed and frankly, I'm starved!

See ya!
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Tomas » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:20 am

.


-Talking Ass-
About humor. Will you permit me to say that I think your attempts at 'humor' completely fail? Take for example your Bozo thread. It is not at all humor because it is so heavy-handed, it actually communicates a kind of under-the-surface 'violence', a mean-spiritedness. It is like the 'violence' of your point is placed before any lightness of humor. No part of it is really to be laughed at, it is a blunt and didactic display. There is no grace in it.

Do you think, Carl, you are an emulatable writer on this forum? What sort of a view do you have of yourself? What is the purpose, really, of your hounding of people whose posts you don't like, a common tendency of yours? It is a question I have had for some time, and one worthy of consideration. You have often said that you have a 'purpose', and your purpose and chosen is to show people things you want them to see, and I admit that from time to time you succeed in this. But I only suggest to you that it is almost always with this 'heavy hand', a kind of mean-spiritedness. Why is your writing inflected with such a 'vibe'? What I get from 95% of what you write is the residue of bad feeling, anger, frustration and other unpleasant residues.

In addition to that, you rarely if ever originate ideas or even topics. (The wretched Bozo topic notwithstanding). I never feel I receive ideas from you. Mostly what I get from your writing is bitterness and strange anger.

So listen, you frustrated jerk-off. Will you do me a wee favor? If you don't like my posts, pass them by. Do not pay attention to them. I am not at all interested in your commentary about them that reflect and express your fucked-up psychology. It is not as though I am influenced by what you write. What you write, and the way you communicate it, for me represents failure.

Do you understand where I am coming from?


-tomas-
I understand that your persona, Talking Ass has been voluntarily .. suspended. I hadn't read this thread before but how you have responded to Carl is somewhat, right on. I've a different take on Carl, but that is neither here nor there.

I've gone to the Bozo thread about three times, I believe.

What I find interesting is as to why he has chosen a FreeMason of the 33rd Degree to hold up as his creative thread.

Alan W. Livingston, the Bozo Clown creator, was a well-known Shriner :-)

Thanks, Carl.


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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Tomas » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:47 am

Tomas wrote:.


-Talking Ass-
About humor. Will you permit me to say that I think your attempts at 'humor' completely fail? Take for example your Bozo thread. It is not at all humor because it is so heavy-handed, it actually communicates a kind of under-the-surface 'violence', a mean-spiritedness. It is like the 'violence' of your point is placed before any lightness of humor. No part of it is really to be laughed at, it is a blunt and didactic display. There is no grace in it.

Do you think, Carl, you are an emulatable writer on this forum? What sort of a view do you have of yourself? What is the purpose, really, of your hounding of people whose posts you don't like, a common tendency of yours? It is a question I have had for some time, and one worthy of consideration. You have often said that you have a 'purpose', and your purpose and chosen is to show people things you want them to see, and I admit that from time to time you succeed in this. But I only suggest to you that it is almost always with this 'heavy hand', a kind of mean-spiritedness. Why is your writing inflected with such a 'vibe'? What I get from 95% of what you write is the residue of bad feeling, anger, frustration and other unpleasant residues.

In addition to that, you rarely if ever originate ideas or even topics. (The wretched Bozo topic notwithstanding). I never feel I receive ideas from you. Mostly what I get from your writing is bitterness and strange anger.

So listen, you frustrated jerk-off. Will you do me a wee favor? If you don't like my posts, pass them by. Do not pay attention to them. I am not at all interested in your commentary about them that reflect and express your fucked-up psychology. It is not as though I am influenced by what you write. What you write, and the way you communicate it, for me represents failure.

Do you understand where I am coming from?


-tomas-
I understand that your persona, Talking Ass has been voluntarily .. suspended. I hadn't read this thread before but how you have responded to Carl is somewhat, right on. I've a different take on Carl, but that is neither here nor there.

I've gone to the Bozo thread about three times, I believe.

What I find interesting is as to why he has chosen a FreeMason of the 33rd Degree to hold up as his creative thread.

Alan W. Livingston, the Bozo Clown creator, was a well-known Shriner :-)

Thanks, Carl.


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An unnamed QRS affiliate says:
Alex asked me to let you know that he hasn't been suspended - he is taking
a voluntary sabbatical. He is otherwise occupied in the "real" world.
~QRS devotee

-tomas-
Thanks, but isn't that what I backasswardly wrote above?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Carl G » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:22 am

Tomas wrote:
Tomas wrote:.


-Talking Ass-
About humor. Will you permit me to say that I think your attempts at 'humor' completely fail? Take for example your Bozo thread. It is not at all humor because it is so heavy-handed, it actually communicates a kind of under-the-surface 'violence', a mean-spiritedness. It is like the 'violence' of your point is placed before any lightness of humor. No part of it is really to be laughed at, it is a blunt and didactic display. There is no grace in it.

Do you think, Carl, you are an emulatable writer on this forum? What sort of a view do you have of yourself? What is the purpose, really, of your hounding of people whose posts you don't like, a common tendency of yours? It is a question I have had for some time, and one worthy of consideration. You have often said that you have a 'purpose', and your purpose and chosen is to show people things you want them to see, and I admit that from time to time you succeed in this. But I only suggest to you that it is almost always with this 'heavy hand', a kind of mean-spiritedness. Why is your writing inflected with such a 'vibe'? What I get from 95% of what you write is the residue of bad feeling, anger, frustration and other unpleasant residues.

In addition to that, you rarely if ever originate ideas or even topics. (The wretched Bozo topic notwithstanding). I never feel I receive ideas from you. Mostly what I get from your writing is bitterness and strange anger.

So listen, you frustrated jerk-off. Will you do me a wee favor? If you don't like my posts, pass them by. Do not pay attention to them. I am not at all interested in your commentary about them that reflect and express your fucked-up psychology. It is not as though I am influenced by what you write. What you write, and the way you communicate it, for me represents failure.

Do you understand where I am coming from?


-tomas-
I understand that your persona, Talking Ass has been voluntarily .. suspended. I hadn't read this thread before but how you have responded to Carl is somewhat, right on. I've a different take on Carl, but that is neither here nor there.

I've gone to the Bozo thread about three times, I believe.

What I find interesting is as to why he has chosen a FreeMason of the 33rd Degree to hold up as his creative thread.

Alan W. Livingston, the Bozo Clown creator, was a well-known Shriner :-)

Thanks, Carl.


Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerusalem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite FreeMason

VietNam veteran - 1971


.


An unnamed QRS affiliate says:
Alex asked me to let you know that he hasn't been suspended - he is taking
a voluntary sabbatical. He is otherwise occupied in the "real" world.
~QRS devotee

-tomas-
Thanks, but isn't that what I backasswardly wrote above?

I, for one, was under no delusions about this. Indeed, Alex made it quite clear that he was taking a sabbatical, evidenced by his closing statements, and by his "on vacation" signature under his Talking Ass nome d'plume. And, tomas, you had also stated quite clearly that our puckish colleague had temporarily and voluntarily vacated the premises. But thanks for crystallizing it for us, for the record.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Tomas » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:20 am

Carl G wrote:You get those feelings about me from yourself. You project them. Tomas does the same thing. You attribute all sorts of things to me and my writing that you could only have gotten from your own inner depths. I am an artist like yourself, but in fact, much less heavy. Look at your hair trigger. One comment is what I have made about your writing since your took on the donkey persona, one comment and you come down on me like a load of bricks.


Wow, Carl. Why'd you project me into your illogic?

...like a load of bricks, my ass.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:33 pm

Carl G wrote: the question is, do the pressures of a disintegrating civilization awaken humans, or are humans like the proverbial frog in the pot of water, oblivious to progressive heating until too late? Many claim we are waking up now. The evidence seems to point otherwise.


Industrial Society is insane. It believes ecosystems can be saved while it continues to increase "growth rate", "economy rate" and GDP.

City people are the problem - city people are the parasites eating away the ecosystems.

Today 50% of world population - 3 billion people are living in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work, overwork, destructive work - making things, buying things and selling things.

We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we limit our production to food, clothing and shelter [ and health care]. We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we stop production of consumer goods or reduce it to the minimum level.

But the problem here is - what are we going to do with the 3 billion people living in cities most of whom are engaged in making things, buying things and selling things. There is no surplus farm land on earth where these people can be relocated.

All of these people cannot stop activity to do meditation - this requires ability and years of effort. So what do we do with the 3 billion people living in cities - how do we keep them occupied without destroying the ecosystems?


Believing that we can save ecosystems while we continue making consumer goods is like believing we can cure cancer while we continue flooding the environment with thousands of carcinogens.

It is like believing we can have peace in this world while the "Military Industrial Complex" continues to produce and sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.


Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. In India the summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:22 am

sushil_yadav wrote: The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

And when you're right we'll try to find you somehow just before we die as well and tell you that you were right all along! Job well done! Do you think knowing this for certain would somehow make it easier to accept this fate when it would start to unfold?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:47 pm

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
sushil_yadav wrote: The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

And when you're right we'll try to find you somehow just before we die as well and tell you that you were right all along! Job well done! Do you think knowing this for certain would somehow make it easier to accept this fate when it would start to unfold?


The truth needs to be told to a society that collectively followed the wrong path of consumerism - the truth needs to be told to a society that has destroyed all ecosystems, decimated all other species in the name of progress, growth and development.

What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we compare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

Economy is a non-issue. Environment is important. Economy will not even exist without environment. Humans will not even exist without environment.

Modern society has plunged to extreme depths of insanity.

Modern society thinks it can be sustainable while it continues producing thousands of consumer goods.

Modern society thinks a peaceul world is possible while it continues to sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Modern society thinks cancer can be cured while it continues flooding the ecosystems with thousands of carcinogens.


On a small planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference the first rule of sustainability is - destroy less.

We destroy ecosystems for food - for clothing - for shelter - and for thousands of consumer goods.

The less we destroy - the more sustainable we are.

The fewer things we make - the more sustainable we are.


On a small planet like earth only a non-consumerist society can be sustainable - only a society that destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter[and health care] can be sustainable.



When something goes wrong with our cars, computers and aeroplanes, we contact the manufacturer to know how they could be repaired - where they could be repaired.

All ecosystems on earth are getting destroyed moment by moment. To repair, restore and regenerate them we need to contact the manufacturer. But where is the manufacturer of ecosystems? There is no human manufacturer - There are no multiNational Companies that manufactured rivers and oceans, fertile soil, forests, millions of species, millions of members in millions of species, arctic ice and other glaciers.

About 30 years ago most people refused to believe that arctic ice was melting or could melt in future.

Then satellite pictures started appearing and provided proof with "before and after" pictures. People reluctantly accepted that ice was melting - but were still not alarmed. They said it would take hundreds of years - thousands of years for ice to melt to a dangerous level.

If we compare satellite pictures of arctic ice of this year with those taken 30 years ago we would know how alarming the situation is.

Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. The summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

Every ecosystem is in grave danger. The doomsday scenario is approaching hundreds of times faster than predicted earlier. The signs - the indicators are already there - the recent climate changes - the extreme weather conditions - droughts, floods, fires, hurricanes and typhoons. The collapse has already happened for millions of other species - they have been decimated. Human collapse is very near - just around the corner.


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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Jamesh » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:31 pm

That's all true, but what if the hardships humanity will face due to its destruction of the environment ultimately are what is needed to change our animal natures?

While the majority of politicians talk up economic growth and population increases, knowing that the developing world will insist on similar levels of consumerism, there isn't much point getting worked up about it.

In an evolutionary sense we are overdue for a decent round of suffering. The world is far from an Easter Island situation, except that is in relation to the tools of warfare. We can afford a sefl-caused decimation of the potential future population.

Indeed the suffering that environmental destruction may incur, might mean that a far better proportion of our future efforts are directed towards both sustainability/repair and human expansion outside of this earth - and quite frankly that is more important than anything else to this life form.

While I don't give a fuck about just about everything, those who do should be working against the brainwashing of politicians and business.

While Australian working hours are low compared to most countries, they could be much shorter. It is the misdirection of work effort to afford the habits of consumerism that causes this. The problem with climate change is that it is gradual and our habits will adapt to the changing environment - we will desire to a lesser degree "being in nature" time for instance.

We won't suffer as much as you assume, except if global war ensues. The thing is that if even 33% of the efforts currently directed to producing useless consumer products, were instead directed to creating necessary products, including food and energy production, and establishing sustainable technologies and resources, there would be no need for a significant loss of life (more than say 2%), perhaps even in the poorest countries.

Without the necessary suffering what wont change is our primeval greed and fear. It will take massive suffering for the common people to be induced to take the necessary steps to take back control over their futures from the hands of business and religion, and others with inflated ego's.

I'm certain we will push things to over the limit, and nothing anyone does will change that (except push the nuke button). As a whole species we are too greedy, too brainwashed, too egotistical, too herdly, too unthinking and shallow, too complex, too non-unified and too confident of our ability to fix things at the last moment to not push things to the limit. The negative outcomes are still too distant for everyday folk. They will need to slowly evolve away from consumptive greed, and only suffering can induce that.

It's just a question of what that limit is, and we don’t really know - but environmentally it won’t occur in the next 30 years, by which time the economic costs will have become self-evident, and thus far more of our efforts will be directed to resolving the issues. It will be a less diverse and beautiful world, but we'll be in the process of getting accustomed to it by other means - like virtual realities.

Should environmental destruction cause a annihilating war, so be it. I won’t be fighting anyone.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:48 am

Industrial Society is speeding up the demise of ecosystems by providing jobs to all - education to all.

After Industrial Revolution work turned into extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Most of the people living in cities are engaged in the destructive cycle of
production of consumer goods, selling of consumer goods, buying of
consumer goods.This planet is very small - just 40,000 km in
circumference. Today 50% of world population is living in cities - and
this percentage is increasing day by day.

Provide jobs to all?
Provide education to all? - oh yes, provide jobs/education to all and
very soon the human species will go out of existence.

The entire education system is promoting consumerism, extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.

People who are getting education in technology/ engineering.... are engaged in production of consumer goods.

People who are getting education in the fields of business, finance, MBA....are engaged in selling of consumer goods.

Most of the people getting education in Arts subjects are also engaged in
selling of consumer goods and services - sales and marketing jobs.

If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will last longer. If we destroy ecosystems for consumer goods in addition to food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will finish much sooner.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water,land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

By providing jobs to all - education to all, Industrial Society is destroying the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.



What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started doing work continuously - 24 X 7 - picking up things already lying in the house, breaking them up and making new things out of them without stopping?

A similar thing is happening to the planet - 6.8 billion people
continuously engaging in work - destroying the ecosystems moment by
moment.

Man started destroying "extra" after Industrial Revolution. This "extra"
destruction has risen exponentially in the last 50 years.

Work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work. People who are working to provide food, clothing, shelter and healthcare are doing work - rest of the population is engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured / created by MultiNational Corporations. Who can undo the damage that has been done to ecosystems by billions of people over a period of 200 - 250 years?



Industrial Society has killed billions of acres of fertile soil by covering it with cement and concrete.This is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.We
have got a very small planet. On this small planet two-thirds of
surface area is water. Only one-third is land - and this includes vast
areas of land that are not fertile - deserts, rocky
mountains, ice/ glaciers. There is very little surface area on
earth which is fertile. It is this fertile soil that has produced food
for millions of species that have lived on land for millions of years. Killing billions of acres of fertile soil is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.The punishment is coming - very soon - punishment of the highest degree - punishment raised to the power of infinity.



"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Green Development".

These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.

Industry produces three kinds of waste - solid, liquid and gaseous.

There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - air, water, land.

There is no fourth place on earth where Industrial waste can go.

Industrial Society has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, chemical waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste.........

This waste has killed, polluted and poisoned rivers, lakes, oceans, underground water, the soil/ land, the air/ sky.

Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.



We have created a society that rapes, plunders and exploits "Mother Earth" 365 days of the year - and then celebrates Earth Day.

When someone destroys the home of a human being it is considered a crime and the accused is sent to prison.

When the human species collectively destroys the homes [ecosystems] of millions of other species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

The police, the law, the judiciary are trying to catch a few criminals - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.



What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we com...pare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

The two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism.

Science, Technology and Industrialization are responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.

If "Industrial Revolution" had not happened what would be the scenario today?

The feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control.

Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.

Maybe I would'nt be existing today - and billions of others may not have existed - but millions/ billions of humans would exist [just like they existed before Industrialization]

Most ecosystems would be hundreds of times/ thousands of times in better shape than today.

Millions of other species that have been decimated by Industrial Society would be existing in very healthy numbers - their population levels thousands of times greater than what they are now.

Providing food, clothing, shelter and healthcare is good. But did "Industrial Society" stop at that?

Do we have an Industrial Society that only provides food, clothing, shelter and healthcare to people?

No - the jokers tried to sell hundreds of consumer goods to all citizens of Industrial Society. They tried to make all people consumerists.

Industrial Society started destroying ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to destroying them for food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot do this on a small planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference. If you live this way you end up destroying all ecosystems - you end up decimating all other species - you end up destroying animals, trees, air, water and land - the very things that created and sustained all life on earth.



The earth is sick.

Ecosystems are dying.

Animals, trees, air, water and land are dying.

People say - why bother, it was meant to happen this way, nature will take care of itself.

When people fall sick - they rush to the doctor to save themselves.

When people fall sick - they rush to the hospital to save themselves.

Insane, abnormal, selfish, criminal human species.



Almost every country has been claiming its green cover is increasing.

How can this ever be true?

A fully grown tree is cut down in seconds/ minutes.

It takes 20 years for a tree to grow fully.

The rate of destruction of fully grown trees is hundreds of thousands
of times greater than the rate of replacement of fully grown trees.

And only a small percentage of trees that are planted survive to grow into healthy adult trees.

And even if you manage to replace trees how are you going to replace
the population of millions of species of animals, birds and insects
that lived in the forest and died when the forest was cut down.

Secondly where are you planting new trees? You can plant new trees on forest land only if forest land remains forest land.

But this is not the case.

We have got a very small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km.
On this small planet two-thirds of surface area is water. Included in
the remaining land area are deserts, rocky mountains and glaciers which
do not support vegetation.

If the soil is fertile and gets rain it will grow forests, trees,
plants, vegetation by itself. This is how nature grew all the forests
in this world.

Before the arrival of man all the land that could grow forests had forests on it.

Then the genius human species arrived on the scene.

First he cut down forests for fire, then he cut down forests for
agriculture and villages. After Industrial Revolution forests were cut
down for towns and cities, for setting up industries/ factories, for
mining and extraction of raw material/minerals, for railways, for road
network.

So once the forest is cut down the land is taken up for agriculture,
for cattle grazing, for industry, for towns and cities, for rail and
road network.

So where are the new trees being planted? Where are they growing up?

How can green cover ever increase?

Lies, lies, lies .........blatant lies.

The rate of destruction of forests has risen exponentially after Industrial Revolution.

One can know the truth by looking at the satellite pictures of forests



Why did God create the insane human species that is ready to do
everything for the wrong cause and nothing for the right cause – a
species which is willing to do everything to destroy the ecosystems and
nothing to save the ecosystems.

Man is ready to kill and get killed for religion, for country, for honour, for power, for money and fame - But not for environment.

Millions have been killed over trivial issues and causes.
Millions have died for trivial issues and causes.

How many people have died for environment? How many people have died for
the most important / precious things on earth – animals, trees, air,
water and land – the very things that created and sustained all life on
earth.

Most of the ecosystems are already gone. The
little that remains is dying moment by moment. The situation is
extremely critical but the human response is limited to the same old
insanity – bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.

Environmentalism has failed.
Environmentalism never existed.
It was Pseudo-Environmentalism all the way.


When 3000 people died in World Trade Center collapse the west was outraged - Killers, Murderers, Terrorists - they cried out. America vowed to smoke out the culprits - attacked Afghanistan, flattened the country and killed hundreds of thousands of people [directly or indirectly].

When American company "Union Carbide"... killed 20,000 people in Bhopal, India the same desire for justice was not shown by the west.

Why? - Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

There are hundreds of insecticides/ pesticides that are banned in western countries but the west is selling millions of tonnes of these chemicals in asia - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].

Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

The west is shipping millions of tonnes of toxic , hazardous waste to asian countries for recycling - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].

Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in wars. No terrorist organization has killed that many people.

Industry kills - Industry kills humans, Industry kills animals, Industry kills trees, Industry kills air, Industry kills water, Industry kills land.

Industry is the killer - Industry is the murderer - Industry is the
terrorist.



Destruction of ecosystems will soon lead to collapse of Industrial Society.

Humans have decimated millions of other species - very soon it will be the turn of Humans to get decimated.

But even decimation of humans will not save ecosystems - only a total wipe-out of humans will save ecosystems.

If a few million humans survive they will again try to build another Industrial Society because they have seen such a society.

Only human extinction will work.

When the human species appears again there must be no memory of Industrialization and consumerism left in the human brain.

It would be best if the human species never ever appears on the planet again.


This planet can only sustain societies that produce their own food.

This planet cannot sustain societies that do not produce their own food.

Everyone in this world is eating food.

But everyone in this world is not producing food.

Today 50% of world population is living in cities. This population is not producing food. A society that does not produce its own food creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied. People would go crazy if this unnecessary work is not created. A city-based/ non-farming society is mostly engaged in production and selling of consumer goods and services. Work turns into over-work, extra work, destructive work.

When society produces its own food it destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter.

When society does not produce its own food it destroys ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing, shelter.

Cities existed before Industrial Revolution but their destructive impact was very little because they were not producing consumer goods that are being made today.

We can never save environment if we are destroying extra - We can never save environment if we destroy it for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

It is impossible to save environment as long as cities exist.

It is impossible to save environment if we have societies that do not produce their own food.



Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only due to modern technology/ machines.

In the absence of modern technology/ machines it would be impossible for man to destroy all ecosystems.

If modern technology/ machines had not come into existence man would
have probably destroyed some ecosystems on land [forests] - and that
too at a much slower rate than that of the present Industrial Society.

It would have been impossible for man to destroy ecosystems in the sea/ oceans.

It would have been impossible for man to carry out largescale mining
activity and destroy ecosystems on the surface and deep inside the
earth.

It would have been impossible for man to poison the earth with thousands of toxic chemicals.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
solid, liquid and gaseous waste that has poisoned the air, water and
land - the entire planet.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
metal waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...... that has
poisoned the entire planet.

The Machine has killed all ecosystems.

It is impossible to save the remaining ecosystems as long as the machine exists.

The Machine will devour everything that remains on earth.

Machine is the killer.

Kill the machine.



The shameless, insane, abnormal and criminal human species
gets alarmed only when other species are about to go extinct – not before. And
even this late concern is fake - how could it ever be real.

The crime happens much before extinction of species. The tragedy happens much
before extinction of species.

This planet was made for millions of species - not for man alone.

The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier than extinction when man decimated all
other species.

The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier when the population of each species
dropped from millions to thousands and hundreds.

How would humans feel if the roles were reversed and the following happened.

All the animals of the world join hands to decimate the human species.

Humans are outraged , they cry out - killers, murderers, criminals, terrorists.

The animals say - "what are you complaining about?".

We are so compassionate - we did'nt kill all of you.

You should be grateful that we did'nt make you extinct.

There are 10 of you still alive on every continent.



Jobs or Environment?

Economy or Environment?

These are the questions that are being asked today.

This is insanity raised to the power of infinity.

Do we need to discuss, debate and argue for 100 years to know the answer?

Do we need to do research for 100 years to know the answer?

What would be the response of this genius society if professional killers said - you should not stop us from killing people - if you do that you are taking away our jobs.

Jobs are killing ecosystems, work is killing ecosystems, economy is killing ecosystems - work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, extra work, destructive work.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [animals, trees, air, water, land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

Without environment humans will not even exist.

Without environment millions of other species will not exist.

We are alive because of nature - we owe our very existence to nature.

But this insane, abnormal and criminal "Industrial Society" continues to choose jobs instead of environment - economy instead of environment.

Insanity raised to the power of infinity.



Out of millions of species the human species is the only species which is insane enough to believe that food comes from money.

Millions of other species have lived on earth for millions of years. Their food did not come from money.

Food does not come from money - food comes from nature - food grows because of nature - food exists because of fertile soil, water, air, sunlight.......

Industrial Society has killed, polluted, poisoned the very things that produce food.

You can load trillions of dollars into a rocket and send it to the moon - you will not be able to buy a single grain of food over there.

Money is paper, money is plastic - money is not food.

Chief Seattle of the Indian Tribe had warned :

"only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you realize that you cannot eat money"



When is this insane society going to understand that it is not just Industrial accidents that destroy ecosystems - all Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.

The Bhopal gas tragedy killed 20,000 people, crippled half a million people for life, killed thousands of animals and birds, killed/ polluted/ poisoned... the air, water and soil.

Union Carbide was making pesticides/ insecticides in its plant. These carcinogenic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of people all over the world every year - directly or indirectly. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning millions of acres of soil every year, These toxic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of animals and birds every year. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning the underground and above-ground water sources. These toxic insecticides and pesticides have poisoned the entire food chain leading to multiple organ failure, genetic defects, birth defects.

If the Bhopal Gas Tragedy had not happened the toxic insecticides and pesticides produced by Union Carbide would have still led to destruction of ecosystems, killing of humans, animals, birds, air, water and soil.


Recently there was an oil spill in the sea in US. The oil is killing marine life.

Oil kills ecosystems when it spills into the sea.

Oil kills ecosystems even when it does'nt spill into the sea.

If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to power ships that move around oceans - catching fish, killing marine life, torturing marine life moment by moment. At any given time there are 50,000 ships moving in the oceans.

If the oil had not spilled it would have been used to run millions of cars, other vehicles, aeroplanes - whose exhausts would release millions of tonnes of toxic gases into the atmosphere. That is not all - ecosystems are killed to manufacture millions of cars, trucks, ships and aeroplanes that run on oil.

If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to run millions of industries and factories - all of which kill ecosystems - animals, trees, air, water, land.


When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industries burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.

Industrial Society has generated billions of tonnes of hazardous solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic
waste, eWaste, chemical waste, nuclear waste.


When an Industrial accident happens the focus of entire world shifts to it.

All environmentalists are outraged.

As if the environment was in good shape before the accident and will be in good shape after the accident.

The problem is not Industrial accident -the problem is not any particular Industrial accident - the problem is Industry itself.

Industrial accidents will continue to happen as long as Industry exists.

They will only get bigger and bigger.

Bigger the Industry bigger the Industrial accident.


Industry kills ecosystems when there is an Industrial accident.

Industry kills ecosystems even when there is no Industrial accident.

All Industrial activity is an accident.

All Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.

All Industrial activity kills animals, trees, air, water, land.

All Industrial activity leads to environmental crisis, environmental disaster, environmental catastrophe.

It is impossible to save ecosystems as long as industry exists.




Technology has destroyed ecosystems.

But the Techno-Worshippers of this insane Industrial Society want still more technology, new technology, better technology, advanced technology - they claim that technology will save the ecosystems.

Two thousand years ago the air was clean - it was not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial gases and particulate matter.

Which technology made the air clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the rivers and oceans were clean - they were not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial waste.

Which technology made the water clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the planet was full of forests - millions of species thrived - their population was hundreds and thousands of times greater than what it is now.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the oceans were full of fish and other marine species.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste did not exist on this planet.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, eWaste, nuclear waste did not exist on this planet.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?


Technology does not save ecosystems - it is the absence of technology that saves ecosystems.

Science, technology and industrialization lead to over-exploitation of ecosystems.

Technology is not the saviour of ecosystems - technology is the destroyer of ecosystems.


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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Unidian » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:19 am

Industrial society does destroy mind and environment, because that's what industry does. And I don't mean steel mills and such, of course. I mean the concept of industry - work as an "ethic."
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dan Rowden » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:34 am

"Industrious" - what an awful word!
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Kelly Jones » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:11 pm

It depends on your point of view, Dan.

Many well-off people, particularly older women, have no concept of the the place of discomfort in civilisation. They believe things of great worth can be achieved without discomfort. Civilisation, to them, was largely built through a dreamy, idle kind of creativity, without people dying, without tedious repetition, without all the gross, dirty, laborious stuff that one could pretty much label "industry". It comes from a privileged perspective of the world, where everything is already done for them, and they sit at the top of the pile complaining.

I just met one such lady yesterday. I've no idea what planet she's on, as she thought Thomas Edison was a creative bloke who invented things because he enjoyed the process. Much like a middle-class female dabbling-artist.

Man, she pooh-poohed even Monty Python as inconsequential buffoonery! The Life of Brian amounted to "slapstick". Sacrilege.


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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Unidian » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:25 pm

Wait, you like Monty Python?

My universe just ceased to make sense...
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dan Rowden » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:49 pm

Who could possibly dislike Python - really?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Unidian » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:06 pm

I dunno, but if I had to take a guess, it would have been Kelly.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Kelly Jones » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:48 pm

My thought was that she thought them inconsequential because she was a Christian. I do live in the Bible Belt of Tasmania, perhaps one of the most beltiest belts in Australia owing to the high percentage of old English migrants. But then, given the conversation yesterday, I think she was more of the view that no one is worth anything, and even her greatest loves are selfish, masturbatory, and futile. You know, the depressive side of scientific materialism, where nothing matters, no morality is worth a tuppence, and we're all justified in being complete shits to each other.

I'm not that interested in finding out why she doesn't value Monty Python, as I find it a bit disconcerting that she actually enjoys living in a sterile motel, doesn't open her windows despite the air being cleaner than pretty much anywhere else in the world, and has to walk through a number of security doors to get out onto the street. If she were a tough kind of old lesbian, who'd lived alone most of her life, and lived in an unusual way, I might find her more interesting. But she's not that eccentric. She seems rich, disenchanted, and arrogant.

She actually asked me, "What's the point in being uncomfortable?" I mean, like she had no idea about the effects of poverty.


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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby jupiviv » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:58 pm

This is the only thread I've seen where Talking Ass' posts are exceeded in size by someone else's.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:13 pm

Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.

Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.



For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.



There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.

Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.

Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????

Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.

Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.

The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

Height of Insanity!

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Tue May 01, 2012 7:12 pm

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.

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Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

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Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet cannot sustain Urban population.

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby ForbidenRea » Tue May 01, 2012 9:24 pm

The myths of the geological issue is inane to my progressive thinking. Otherwise, take a tour of alex's mind and you'll figure it out!!! Furthermore, a geolical spatial interest would indeed fire a hole in the realms of thinking. I. A. What a man craves is his own feeling of dismay to the point of this understanding. I. E. We study them to cohere with their summoned physiology and maturity. The 'realms' of thinking thus far consists of a child like manuever/character. I practically solved a delirium from knowing that A-schematics. A pleasing heart. A lying tongues. And, the works of art from the anus universe won't get you very far unless a genius mind intent is consistent with the worlds around it. I live in a tub. ?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby divine focus » Thu May 03, 2012 4:22 pm

Sushil, all is perception. my friend. What is "destroyed" when there's still so much biodiversity? Do you ever stop and think about all the forms of life on this planet? How can we ever make a dent it that? It would take a concerted effort to do just that.

You say intelligence is an abhorrence. Was the planet perfect before we came along? Along what values do you say it was better? Do we not have the right to live as we are on the planet that we are a part of?

There are no accidents.

If we as beings can't live on a planet, where would we be? Should we try to move everyone off into space somewhere? That would take some technology and more destruction of the environment. What is a viable solution to all the self-debasing?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby namae nanka » Thu May 03, 2012 8:13 pm

Theodore Kaczynski rots in jail, Technology is God.

Here, read Mitchell Heisman's suicide note and stop crying for the loss of conditions facilitating your little animal existence.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Thu May 03, 2012 10:29 pm

ForbidenRea wrote:The myths of the geological issue is inane to my progressive thinking. Otherwise, take a tour of alex's mind and you'll figure it out!!! Furthermore, a geolical spatial interest would indeed fire a hole in the realms of thinking. I. A. What a man craves is his own feeling of dismay to the point of this understanding. I. E. We study them to cohere with their summoned physiology and maturity. The 'realms' of thinking thus far consists of a child like manuever/character. I practically solved a delirium from knowing that A-schematics. A pleasing heart. A lying tongues. And, the works of art from the anus universe won't get you very far unless a genius mind intent is consistent with the worlds around it. I live in a tub. ?


What does this mean? I. E; everything?

Which tongue lashes like a heartless serpant?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Thu May 03, 2012 10:38 pm

Industrial society? Not all aspects of society are industrial.

Technologically advanced society which relies heavily on industry to sustain it's superlative complexity and scale, was inevitable. It isn't untrue that humanity has greatly scarred and sprawled much of her face, but it is clearly a transitional phase. The greatest innovations in materials engineering will almost certainly bring on a new form of revolution to be realised as post telecoms revolution. The environment is highly resilient, and could easily explode if we could lay down and rest. Which is likely an outome of extremely advanced energy production, agriculture, societal ethics and togetherness. I realise i haven't written explicit arguments for my view but i could if prompted, i just think it is obvious, if you look harder.

As for the mind, i really don't understand what you mean. Presumably a spiritual component is neglected?
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