Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dennis Mahar » Mon May 14, 2012 9:48 am

Alex,

It was abrupt and to some extent shocking: that day I invited Dennis and Cathy and David and Dan to share a 'reconcilliation meal' and where I lay me down before the altars of neo-buddhism. I left them chatting about abstract 'things' in the living room and went to the kitchen to cook up the reconcilliation food. The little puppy frolicking at mine heels charmed me but hunger and 'nirvana' got.the best of me and I grabbed him up, hacked off his little head, gutted him and quartered the little yapper all the while watching the moon rise over the burned barn, knowing I was the barn, the moon, the pup, my honored guests.

Oh those tacos! Oh heavens were they delicious! Those little bits of grilled meat in tender corn tortillas I lovingly rolled out myself. Fresh cilantro, garlic, chopped onion, jalapeño pepper, tomato: a glorious sauce for the doggy tacos I offered to mine friends.

"Where's me little puppy?" asks Dennis and I think of the illusion of the world, the meaningless forms arising, dissipating like mist. I look over at Cathy who is chewing the last bite. Everything seems so Buddhistic, so dispassionate.

"We have just eaten that little ball of illusion" I say and set the severed head on the glass coffee table.

No one reacts. We stare straight ahead. Dennis asks.if there is any more and I say Yes, there's enough for two tacos more which I prepare and offer, one to Cathy, one to Dennis.

"It always works out" I say. We all nod our heads.




You've got a World of things thinging there.

Who or what is doing it?
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Cathy the farm girl/ Cathy +1 - Alex -1

Postby Tomas » Tue May 15, 2012 5:47 am

Talking Ass wrote:And naturally you are totally missing the point I am attempting to bring to your attention. Can you at least try to identify it?

On this, Cathy owns you.
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Alex the city slicker/ Alex +1 - Dennis -1

Postby Tomas » Tue May 15, 2012 5:49 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:Alex,
You've got a World of things thinging there.

Who or what is doing it?

On this, Alex owns you.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Cahoot » Tue May 15, 2012 6:30 am

Cathy Preston wrote:Cahoot:
Pain is if you stub your toe. Pain is the icy embrace of an extremely cold morning. Dukkha is suffering, stress, anxiety, dissatisfaction.

Dukkha includes physical pain.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Cathy Preston » Tue May 15, 2012 7:19 am

Cahoot wrote:
Cathy Preston wrote:Cahoot:
Pain is if you stub your toe. Pain is the icy embrace of an extremely cold morning. Dukkha is suffering, stress, anxiety, dissatisfaction.

Dukkha includes physical pain.


Ok, I won't argue with that, since physical pain is normally associated with a negative, and after enlightenment, it's no longer negative. We are no longer a victim of it, it's integral to the moment.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dennis Mahar » Tue May 15, 2012 12:27 pm

pain and suffering are conventionally experienced as happening to a 'me'.

a deeper experience of reality is the recognition that ultimately there is no 'me' possible to experience pain and suffering outside the act of conceptual designation.

it comes down to,
the belief in a 'me' which falls away under the test of Reason.

or

giving Reason its due and deferring any claims to ownership of pain and suffering as 'mine'.
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Dennis Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Tomas » Wed May 16, 2012 1:45 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:pain and suffering are conventionally experienced as happening to a 'me'.
a deeper experience of reality is the recognition that ultimately there is no 'me' possible to experience pain and suffering outside the act of conceptual designation.
it comes down to,
the belief in a 'me' which falls away under the test of Reason.
or
giving Reason its due and deferring any claims to ownership of pain and suffering as 'mine'.

All part of the plan Dennis,
don't be upset.
Fear generation.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dennis Mahar » Wed May 16, 2012 10:09 am

Tomas,
All part of the plan Dennis,
don't be upset.
Fear generation.


there you go Sherlock.
'World as crime scene'.
sorting out the suspects, good guys/bad guys.
have you nailed the killer?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby ForbidenRea » Wed May 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Industrial revolution...PS
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dionysus » Sat May 19, 2012 9:58 am

The advent of an Industrial Society would've never been given cause to rise were it not for the mechanical view of the world, the mechanical philosophy first promulgated by Descartes, furthered by Bacon, substantiated by Galileo and finally stamped with "scientific validity" by virtue of Newton (who in reality was opposed to this worldview but was afraid of ridicule) - I would suggest reading Berman's The Re-enchantment of the World for an extensive coverage of the subject.
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July 20th 2012 antichrist revealed

Postby Tomas » Wed May 23, 2012 12:53 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:Tomas,
All part of the plan Dennis,
don't be upset.
Fear generation.


there you go Sherlock.
'World as crime scene'.
sorting out the suspects, good guys/bad guys.
have you nailed the killer?

that ancient dragon that the scriptures calls satan
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu May 24, 2012 10:10 am

that ancient dragon that the scriptures calls satan


that fits 'the stranger came to town' story.
where Adam and Eve lived in nirvana and the asp (stranger) came along and mucked it up.
took Adam and Eve from nirvana to samsara.

then the 'Hero's Journey' had to be undertaken to climb out of samsara and get back to nirvana.

satan's not very high up the food chain,
so who's responsible?
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:29 pm

............................................................................
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
............................................................................

A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Industrial Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is trying to save environment by changing the Technology.

Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

.
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All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

How can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.

Industrial Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population, entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50% population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved automatically.

If billions of pages of environmental discussion is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion.....They didn't even have a language for discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

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If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Urban Population is engaged in Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth.

For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

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Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must be stopped.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.

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This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.

Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.

There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.

Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.

Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.

Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.

In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.

In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.

This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.

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A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Last edited by sushil_yadav on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:32 pm

Dionysus wrote:The advent of an Industrial Society would've never been given cause to rise were it not for the mechanical view of the world, the mechanical philosophy first promulgated by Descartes, furthered by Bacon, substantiated by Galileo and finally stamped with "scientific validity" by virtue of Newton (who in reality was opposed to this worldview but was afraid of ridicule) - I would suggest reading Berman's The Re-enchantment of the World for an extensive coverage of the subject.


You are right about this.

Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.

The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:24 am

sushil_yadav wrote:
Dionysus wrote:The advent of an Industrial Society would've never been given cause to rise were it not for the mechanical view of the world, the mechanical philosophy first promulgated by Descartes, furthered by Bacon, substantiated by Galileo and finally stamped with "scientific validity" by virtue of Newton (who in reality was opposed to this worldview but was afraid of ridicule) - I would suggest reading Berman's The Re-enchantment of the World for an extensive coverage of the subject.


You are right about this.

Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.

The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.


I've not read the whole thread, but i have your last post. While i see problems with distinguishing West from East, an imaginary lateral division with no regard for time and little regard for history. I'd ask why is science not a spiritual ritual, each person presumably has it's thoughts and contributes by adding parts to the whole (church of thought) that the globe shares. Expansion of mind inevitably comes with the manipulation of that which creates mind, the environment. The problem with the abuse of resources is clearly a result of excessive human numbers, which is a result of not forming some sort of treaty on breeding, a result of spiritual immaturity (imo). Well over a third of the world's population has grown from the poverty stricken East.


'Pumping out units, "spluuudunk"' - George Carlin, Comedian.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:24 am

sushil_yadav wrote:
Dionysus wrote:The advent of an Industrial Society would've never been given cause to rise were it not for the mechanical view of the world, the mechanical philosophy first promulgated by Descartes, furthered by Bacon, substantiated by Galileo and finally stamped with "scientific validity" by virtue of Newton (who in reality was opposed to this worldview but was afraid of ridicule) - I would suggest reading Berman's The Re-enchantment of the World for an extensive coverage of the subject.


You are right about this.

Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.

The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.


I've not read the whole thread, but i have your last post. While i see problems with distinguishing West from East, an imaginary lateral division with no regard for time and little regard for history. I'd ask why is science not a spiritual ritual, each person presumably has it's thoughts and contributes by adding parts to the whole (church of thought) that the globe shares. Expansion of mind inevitably comes with the manipulation of that which creates mind, the environment. The problem with the abuse of resources is clearly a result of excessive human numbers, which is a result of not forming some sort of treaty on breeding, a result of spiritual immaturity (imo). Well over a third of the world's population has grown from the poverty stricken East.


'Pumping out units, "spluuudunk"' - George Carlin, Comedian.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:18 am

mental vagrant wrote:
The problem with the abuse of resources is clearly a result of excessive human numbers, which is a result of not forming some sort of treaty on breeding, a result of spiritual immaturity (imo). Well over a third of the world's population has grown from the poverty stricken East.


Yes, Overpopulation is a problem.....But it is a problem because of Industrialization.....The cause of overpopulation is Industrialization.

The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.

It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China???? .....And once again, In the absence of Industrialization India and China would not be having large populations today.

If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species......There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

This planet can only sustain a Non-Industrial Society.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:38 pm

Overpopulation is a product of human ignorance, lack of education and emotional causes. Industry could exist at any scale, particular industries at greater or lesser, but our global model is an absurd oil driven erection based on delusional political economics, which brings me back to people are the cause, our collective ability to look the other way.

I think this problem can be looked at in many ways, but nothing good can come out of discussion if aren't willing to change ourselves.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Undeniably Deniable » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:57 am

Sushil- I'm not sure if you believe most of what you wrote but it's always good for peope to take a step back and collect themselves and it's nice to live near nature or away from people. People have always used force for survival when they could and perhaps those natives could have come to an aggrement by living amongst the stronger force and not fighting them for it's stupid to sacrifice one's life in the face of an obviously supeior force so the blame can always circle around. People like to just enjoy their lives and don't forget to love everybody and sow love. Peace.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:58 am

I genuinely don't believe I'm capable of love anymore, there is less and less of me each passing day.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Undeniably Deniable » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:19 pm

Maybe you should find a group that you can talk to. I did post in my other post my experience and I had a problem that was cured by that substance or rather I was able to work it out on the come down. It's very dangerous as if you have recently within the past five years had panicked thoughts or are prone to conspiracy linesof thought I wouldnt try it without somebody to talk to. But I don't want to reduce life to substances or psychedelics as a strong feeling of love is a very powerful protector in life and that feeling hopefully can be ressurected without psychedelics. But my idea on those substances is to always be with somebody, to take half of what somebody tells you to take, and to not go under or search for visuals. I will say I had a bizarre problem where a part of my mind turned on me creating a feeling somebody else was looking out of my left eye although I never felt like I lost control of what I was doing just that my personality submerged. I was able to work through that and fight it on the days afterwards and now I feel great like myself and many axieties dissapeared. I will say that for a few wweks after you have to stay in control of your mind because you are more suscceptible for awhile to panicking if you let your emotions take over.

But anyway thats my experience and I actually am very against giving advice on these matters as some people have either temporarilly lost it and there is the danger of permanent problems. But for me I was diverging from love and I thank my lucky stars I found out about morning glory seeds. People know what love is when they feel it though and I love you and hope you start to feel normal again soon.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby namae nanka » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:51 am

There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.


try child mortality.

If Industrialization had not happened,


you'd be tilling the land for food like 99% of folks instead of masturbating on the internet.

Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control...


cities are the human petri dishes, no industrialization, no burgeoning cities, no diseases. Village folks tilling the land instead of finding stupid causes to ruin their minds with.

What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China????


as a proportion higher than that of today. (more so if you leave out the 'americans' from across the southern border)

Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations


that 50% fishes dying out study was a media hook, just in case if you would bring it up in the future.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.


hindus and their cow-love...it must be the sign of times that this sentiment is giving off vibes of zoophilia. And that zoophilia is the term for it.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:02 am

Undeniably Deniable wrote:...... it's always good for people to take a step back and collect themselves and it's nice to live near nature or away from people.


Undeniably Deniable,

Thanks for expressing your views.....We are alive because of nature....We owe our very existence to nature....Welfare of nature is millions of times more important than human welfare.....Without nature humans will not even exist.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby mental vagrant » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:06 am

namae nanka wrote:
There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.


try child mortality.

If Industrialization had not happened,


you'd be tilling the land for food like 99% of folks instead of masturbating on the internet.

Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control...


cities are the human petri dishes, no industrialization, no burgeoning cities, no diseases. Village folks tilling the land instead of finding stupid causes to ruin their minds with.

What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China????


as a proportion higher than that of today. (more so if you leave out the 'americans' from across the southern border)

Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations


that 50% fishes dying out study was a media hook, just in case if you would bring it up in the future.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.


hindus and their cow-love...it must be the sign of times that this sentiment is giving off vibes of zoophilia. And that zoophilia is the term for it.


Those points are non sequitur, you should look at the problem of sustainable existence above, below, from all degrees of the horizon.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:52 pm

..
When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.

When America kills thousands of children in Iraq and Afghanistan with "smart bombs" and "depleted uranium bombs", and indirectly through economic, food and medical sanctions the world is not outraged.

When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

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An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.

Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

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Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.

Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.

Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.

The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.

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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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