Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:43 pm

The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.


A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.


Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct.

Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits.

A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy.

A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself.



I am trying to get the following experiment conducted in a psychophysiology/ bio-chemistry laboratory.

There is a link between visual / verbal speed ( in perception, memory,
imagery ) and the bio-chemical state of the brain and the body.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual and verbal processing
associated with the emotion slows down ( stops / freezes ).

The degree of difficulty of an emotion depends upon the degree of
freezing (of visuals and words ) required to intensify and sustain that
particular emotion.


Experiment:

Subjects (preferably actors specialising in tragedy / tragic roles )
will be asked to watch a silent video film showing any of the
following:-

(1) Human suffering.
(2) Animal suffering.
(3) Suffering ( Destruction ) of Air / Water / Land / Trees.

Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer.

The chemical changes associated with the emotion in the body(blood) would be measured by appropriate methods.

The silent video film will be shown at different speeds :
(1) 125% of actual speed.
(2) Actual/real speed.
(3) 75% of actual speed.
(4) 50% of actual speed.
(5) 25% of actual speed.


Results :

(1) Intensity of emotion increases with the decrease in visual speed.
(2) Intensity of emotion is maximum when visual speed is minimum (25%
of actual speed)
(3) The amount of chemical change associated with the emotion in the
body(blood) will be found to increase with the decrease in visual speed.
(4) The chemical change is maximum when visual speed is minimum.
(5) The amount of chemical change will increase with the decrease in
breathing rate. Breathing becomes so slow and non-rhythmic that it stops
for some time at the inhalation/ exhalation stages.

The above co-relations will be valid for all subjects -even for those who cannot feel pain/ grief. Such subjects will experience emotion associated with boredom/ discomfort/ restlessness/ irritability/ uneasiness. The chemicals released will be different but the co-relation between visual speed and amount of chemical will be same( the breathing rates will be different/ fast). All subjects will experience some kind of emotion.

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when weexperience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etc… ]

In the 2nd stage of experiment we shall replace the silent video film with a Narrator ( Audio only ) and repeat the procedure thereby establishing the link between intensity of emotion and verbal speed. The narrator will slow down verbal speed by-- speaking slowly, stretching words, repetition of words/ sentences & making use of
pause/ silence between words.

Please note:
(1) A thinking mind cannot intensify / sustain any emotion.
While this statement is generally true for all emotions, it is particularly true for all painful emotions.

(2) Pain / remorse / empathy cannot be experienced in a society in which visual (verbal) speed and breathing- rates are fast . It is impossible.


PROOF.
Proof of the link between pain and slow visuals / words :-

In the last century man has made thousands of movies / films on various
themes / subjects. Whenever pain / tragedy is shown in any film the
visuals ( scenes ) and words ( dialogues ) are always slowed down. In
many films tragedy is shown in slow motion. At the most intense moment
of pain the films almost become static / stationary.

Tragedy-films provide direct proof / evidence of the link between pain
and slowness.

Pain can intensify / sustain only when visual ( and verbal ) speed slows
down( stops/ freezes).


Change in visual speed over the years.

One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds )
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him.

Today man sits in front of TV / Computer and watches the rapidly
changing visuals / audio.

He sits in a vehicle ( car / train / bus ) and as it moves he watches
the rapidly changing visuals.

He turns the pages of a book / newspaper / magazine and sees many
visuals / text in a short span.


Change in verbal speed over the years.

In ancient times verbal processing was “live” in nature—ie it happened when people actually spoke.
Today there is non-stop verbal processing inside the mind through print and electronic media ( newspapers, books, magazines, radio, television, computer etc…) as a result of which the verbal content & speed has increased thousands of times.


The speed of visuals ( and words ) has increased so much during the last
one hundred years that today the human brain has become incapable of
focussing on slow visuals /words through perception, memory, imagery.

If we cannot focus on slow visuals / words we cannot experience emotions associated with slow visuals /words.



Before the advent of Industrial Revolution Man's thinking was primarily
limited to :

(a) visual processing ( slow visuals )
(b) verbal / language processing ( slow words )

Today there are many kinds of fast thinking :

(1) visual processing ( fast visuals )
(2) verbal / language processing ( fast words )
(3) Scientific / Technical thinking ( fast )
(4) Industrial thinking ( fast )
(5) Business thinking ( fast )

(3), (4) & (5) are associated with Numbers / Symbols / Equations /
Graphs /Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc…

As long as the mind is doing this kind of thinking it cannot feel any
emotion - not an iota of emotion.

In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
In a thinking ( scientific / industrial ) society emotion itself becomes extinct.

Emotion is what remains in the mind when visual/ verbal processing slows down (stops/ freezes)


There are certain categories of people who feel more emotion (subjective experience ) than others.

If we attempt to understand why (and how ) they feel more emotion we can learn a lot about emotion.

Writers, poets, actors, painters ( and other artists )

Writers
Writers do verbal ( and associated visual) processing whole day- every day.
They do slow verbal ( and associated visual) processing every day.
(A novel that we read in 2 hours might have taken 2 years to write. This is also the reason why the reader can never feel the intensity & duration of emotion experienced by the writer )

Poets
Poets do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. There is more emotion in poetry than in prose. This happens because there are very few words ( and associated visuals ) in poetry than in any other kind of writing. There is a very high degree of freezing / slowing down of visuals & words in poetry.

Actors
Actors do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. During shooting / rehearsal they repeat the dialogues ( words ) again and again ( the associated visuals / scenes also get repeated along with the dialogues )

Painters
Painters do visual ( and associated verbal ) processing whole day- every day. They do extremely slow visual processing - The visual on the canvas changes only when the painter adds to what already exists on the canvas.


There are some important points to be noted :

All these people do visual & verbal processing - whole day - every day.
They do slow visual & verbal processing.
They do not do scientific / industrial / business processing whole day - every day.

Most of the city people doing mental work either do this kind of mental processing which is associated with Numbers / Symbols/ Equations / Graphs / Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc… or they do fast visual ( verbal ) processing whole day - every day.

This kind of thinking ( processing ) has come into existence only during the last 200 years and has destroyed our emotional ability ( circuits ).


Once we speed up our minds we become incapable of slowing down [it would take years of effort to slow down]. One can understand it this way - A supercomputer cannot process at the rate of an ordinary computer. Once we speed up [and we have been speeding up for several generations now] we cannot slow down because the neural circuits get altered - the bio-chemistry of the brain and its anatomy changes.



Self-Assessment of ( subjective ) intensity of emotion is almost always wrong.

Suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of a particular emotion that
can be experienced by any human being is 100 units.

Let us suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of that particular emotion ever
experienced by two people A & B in their entire life is :
A - 100units
B - 20 units

Now suppose A & B are made subjects on a particular day and are asked
to feel that particular emotion under experimental conditions ( or
outside the laboratory ) and the intensity &duration they actually experience is :

A - 90 units
B - 18 units

If A & B are then asked to indicate the intensity &duration of emotion on a scale
of 0 -10 their response is likely to be ;

A - 9
B - 9

Who is right and who is wrong ?
A is right.
B is wrong - B is wrong by a wide margin - B has experienced an
intensity(and duration) of 18 units out of a maximum of 100 units and his correct / actual score should be 1.8

Self- assessment ( self rating ) can be accurate only if people have
the capacity to experience the highest intensity &duration ( units ) of the
particular emotion under study.



In small(slow)agriculture-based societies the mind used to experience a state of emotion all the time because of physical work and slow visual/verbal processing . People who do physical work experience the same good subjective-feeling which is experienced by people who do physical excercise. [People who do physical work also sleep much better than people who do mental work - the quality of sleep is much better]. If we read one thousand-year-old literature we will not come across the term "boredom" - the concept of boredom did not exist in slow societies. There were long gaps between different visuals and between words/ sentences - and people had the ability to experience/ tolerate the gaps - it was normal for them.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual / verbal processing slows down ( stops / freezes ). In an Industrial (thinking) society people experience very little emotion because of fast ( visual / verbal / scientific / industrial / business ) thinking.

Suppose the maximum intensity and duration of a particular emotion ( for most people ) in a fast society has reduced to 5 units ( from 100 units that people used to experience in earlier /slower societies ).

If such people experience 4 units of emotion they will give themselves a
rating /score of 8 on a scale of 0-10 whereas their actual score should
be 0.4


[Please note :
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate.
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate.
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute.
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences.]


Thoughts and Emotions are interlinked - but different things - totally/ completly different.

Words can be spoken - words can be read - words can be heard.

Emotion is a subjective-experience. Other examples of subjective experience are taste, smell, touch, headache, stomach pain.

One can understand the difference this way :

When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. Apple can give us the taste of apple - but apple is not taste.

If we pour apple juice into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste - it does not have the ability to feel taste.

If a person eats an apple he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to generate taste from apple.

Words/ Visuals can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions - but words/ visuals are not emotions.



In every field there is easy work/activity and difficult work/activity.

In mathematics there is easy mathematics and difficult mathematics. Everyone can add 2+4 within microseconds. A PhD level problem of mathematics would take hours [or more] to solve - and that too only by someone who has spent 20 - 25 years learning mathematics upto PhD level.

Same way in the field of emotions there are easy emotions and difficult emotions. Easy emotions are evoked within nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds - anger, lust, fear, pleasure, entertainment and excitement are some examples. These emotions are associated with fast breathing and heart-rate. These emotions don"t require gaps between thinking to evoke, intensify and sustain. These are the emotions that can be found everywhere in today's fast society.

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain.


The experiments I have proposed are primarily meant for those people who understand only the language of science. We don't need experiments to understand that our present lifestyle is destroying our Minds and Environment - the evidence is everywhere - left, right and center. The craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived on this planet for thousands of years without needing scientific proof to understand something. It is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/ Environment. Who needs more science or more scientific proof. Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.

Some people demand proof of everything. They won't accept anything without proof. How do people accept their father as their father? Where is the proof?
Scientific proof comes from DNA testing. How many people have got the DNA test conducted?

Two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism. Science and Technology is responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.

Humans are incapable of making solutions. Humans have always created problems. All solutions of Man have actually been problems in disguise - they have led to bigger and greater problems. The quest for a solution is the biggest problem in itself.


IQ Vs EQ

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.
Change is an inherent feature of IQ.
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed.

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes.
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition.
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.

IQ and EQ are contradictory.
IQ and EQ are opposites.
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional.



(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]



Mental work is injurious to the mind and planet.

Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.


Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.


Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people the choice is between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industry/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.


Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods]. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.


The nature of mental work is such that man has to do new mental work every day- in fact he has to do new mental work every moment- Man cannot repeat in the next moment the mental work that he has already done in the previous moment.

A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage.

An engineer cannot design the same machine again and again –once he has made a machine he will try to make changes/ design a new one.

A writer cannot write the same article every day- he will be forced to write something new every day/ every moment (This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments).


Discussions, Debates and Arguments.

Let us examine how much discussion we are collectively having in Industrial Society every day.

Millions of pages in print – newspapers / books / magazines.
Millions of web-pages on internet every day.

Now add to this all the conversation (discussion) we are having through radio / television / telephone and several other media every day.

And add to this all the discussion we are having through face-to-face interaction.

The volume of discussion per individual in one week is greater than the total discussion someone living in pre-industrial society would have in his entire life.

There is too much discussion in modern society.
Discussion is not solving our problems – discussion itself has become a problem – a gigantic problem.


A society that does mental work will discuss itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will argue itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will debate itself to destruction [extinction]


A society that does mental work can never stop discussions / debates / arguments – it is impossible. It will discuss / debate / argue till the last moment of it’s existence.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are diseases of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.


Discussions / debates / arguments can end only in agriculture-based societies that do physical work.

We cannot do physical-work and mental-work simultaneously.

There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work.
If one is high [more] the other has got to be low [less]

If we want to do physical work we have to reduce mental activity by the same proportion.
If we want to do mental work we have to reduce physical activity by the same proportion.

There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies.




Change is an inherent feature of mental work.

Since change is an inherent feature of mental work - a society that does mental work can never be at peace with itself – it is impossible.

A society that does mental work will always be restless.

Only those societies that do physical work [agriculture and related activities] can find contentment and peace.



As long as cities exist we can neither save the environment nor the mind.

To save the [ remaining ] environment from destruction man will have to
return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].

To save the mind from mental diseases man will have to return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].



Criminality and Abnormality.

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember - plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears]

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ]

The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed.

Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times.

There is an arsenal of 50,000 nuclear missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

What could be more criminal than this.
What could be more abnormal than this.

Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.


The claim of "science and technology" of curing cancer is a joke. "Science and Technology" can never cure cancer - it is impossible. "Science and Technology" is the cause of cancer. Most of cancer is caused by toxic chemicals - carcinogens. Industrial Society has flooded the ecosystems with toxic chemicals. Most of the Farm Land has been poisoned with pesticides due to Industrial Agriculture. The Land - The Air - The Water - the entire food chain is contaminated with thousands of man-made toxic chemicals which did not exist before industrialiation. There are hundreds of man-made, toxic chemicals in the blood, bones and tissue of humans. There are toxic, man-made chemicals in the placenta of new born babies. Industrial Society is causing millions of cancer every year. Out of these millions of cases, "science and technology" is able to treat a small percentage - a few thousand cases - through surgery, radiation and chemotherapy etc...And these treatments can hardly be called real treatments because the toxic chemicals which are the root cause of cancer still exist in the environment. This is also the reason why there is a high rate of relapse/ recurrence after cancer treatment. An Industrial Society can never prevent high incidence of cancer, because it is flooding the environment with chemicals all the time.


Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world.

Big Mystery.

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars.


The entire Industrial Society is a terrorist.
The Military-Industrial-Complex is the real terrorist.
Science and Technology is the terrorist.



Make things
Buy things
Sell things

This is not the purpose of life.

Destroy Shopping Culture.

No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.
Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less.




There was a time when Man knew nothing about the number of species and millions of species existed.
Today Man knows the names of millions of species and nothing is left of the species.



It took millions of years for millions of species to slowly come into existence on earth - and man has decimated all other species.

After destroying millions of highly-developed species on earth Man is today searching for a few molecules of life in outer-space.

If a few microbes, a few molecules of methane / water are found on Mars - it becomes the newspaper headline.

They call it progress.



The following is about to come true.

Nature can exist

(1) before man.
(2) after man.
(3) not with man.



Destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. In pre-Industrial Society people destroyed environment primarily for food. In Industrial Society people are destroying environment for food and consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all unnecessary consumer goods.

Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than 99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.

Environment cannot be saved by recycling.

The attempt of an industrial society to save the environment by recycling is like shooting someone 10,000 times and then trying to save him by taking out one bullet.



Time is running out for this planet.



Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes.

A very large percentage of the population is surviving on precription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.

People talk about increase in lifespan. What is the use of increased lifespan if people have to resort to Drugs, Alcohol and Cigarettes to pull through life. And just wait a few more years - the average lifespan will soon become zero - human life will cease to exist on earth.

Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth. We would need several planets[earths] to sustain the present lifestyle.


The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth. There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago.

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

If you kill one person they call it murder.
If you kill a few hundred they call it terrorism.
If you kill a few million they call it war.

Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Science and Technology has produced billions of tonnes of weapons and explosives - chemical, biological and nuclear weapons - millions of tonnes of Radioactive material [ which will soon be used to make dirty radioactive bombs - which are going to contaminate the environment for hundreds and thousands of years]. Science and Technology is the real terrorist.


Governments and Law Enforcement Agencies have labelled a few Environmentalists as EcoTerrorists.

What are the charges against Environmental Activists? - Destruction of property? - endangering human life?

The Military Industrial Complex is doing much more damage to property - it is going around carpet bombing entire countries - flattening entire countries. The Military Industrial Complex is endangering much more human life - it is actually killing - killing millions in War/ Violence - directly or indirectly.

Who is the real Terrorist? - Environmentalists or Industrial Society?

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every man is a serial-killer. The per-capita destruction of Environment - per capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land in Industrial Society is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

Before Industrialization humans killed Environment primarily for Food. After industrialization humans are killing environment for Food and [unnecessary]Consumer Goods.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in War/ Violence. It has decimated all plant and animal species. It has destroyed all ecosystems. It has polluted and poisioned the Sky, Land and Oceans. It has raped and plundered "Mother Earth" in the name of Progress and Development.

The crimes of "Military Industrial Complex"are millions of times greater than the crimes of Environmentalists.

Comparing the crimes of Environmentalists with the crimes of "Military Industrial Complex" is like comparing the Lamp with the Sun.

The entire Industrial Society is a Terrorist.
Science and Technology is the Terrorist.
Military Industrial Complex is the Terrorist.
Culture of Consumerism - culture of making, buying and selling is the Terrorist. Consumerism kills ecosystems - Consumerism is the biggest act of violence against nature.




Think Positive.

Psychologists say -- Think Positive.
Politicians say – Think Positive.
Economists say – Think Positive.
Scientists say – Think Positive.
Everyone says – Think Positive.

Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up.
Think Positive.

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.
Think Positive.

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep.
Think Positive.

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds.
Think Positive.

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.
Think Positive.

Metal everywhere - Concrete everywhere - Plastic everywhere.
Think Positive.

All local cultures have been destroyed in the name of consumerism and globalization.
Think Positive.

Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality.

This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.


Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment.




There is an important point which the human-species needs to understand. People think they can save the Environment by doing something.

We can never save the environment by doing something.

It is overactivity that has destroyed environment in the first place.

Human-species is the only one out of millions of species that has indulged in overactivity on this planet [ And for this very reason the human speciesis going to exist on earth for the least amount of time]

And it is not Mild Overactivity – It is Excessive Overactivity – Exponential Overactivity.

We cannot save the environment by doing something.

We can only save it by doing less of what we have been doing - much less of what we have been doing.

If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%.



The Illogical Logic of Man.

A few birds have got infected with bird-flu and Man has started killing millions of birds.
They say birds are a threat to humans.

Sometime ago there was Mad Cow disease and Man started killing hundreds of thousands of cows.
They said cows are a threat to humans.


Ever since Man came into existence - millions of humans with infectious diseases have transferred such diseases to millions of other people - and will continue to infect millions more in future.
Such people are a threat to rest of the people.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all infected people.

It is Man who has killed millions of people in Wars and other forms of Violence – and can kill millions more any time in future.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all people.


It is the human species which is the greatest threat to humans and all other life on this planet - In fact the human species is the only species which is a threat to all life on Earth.

Man has decimated all Animal and Plant species – polluted the Sky and Oceans - and poisioned every square inch of earth.

In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years.


Humans pose the greatest threat to other humans.
Humans pose the greatest threat to all other life on earth.

The so-called Rational and Civilized Man should follow the same logic here - and destroy the entire human race.

Please note :

If you indulge in Factory Farming – If you torture the birds – confine millions of them in prison like conditions – depriving them of Sunlight and the freedom to walk and fly – you are creating an environment for the spread of virus and disease.



Lifestyle of Mass Destruction.

Destruction is an inherent feature of Development.

Progress = Destruction of Nature.
Development = Destruction of Nature.

We can have Sustainable Lifestyle.
We cannot have Sustainable Development.

Development can never be sustainable.
Sustainability and Development cannot exist together.

Development and Sustainability are opposites.
Development and Sustainability are contradictory.

Sustainable Living is associated with consuming less – being satisfied with a simple and frugal life.
Development is associated with never ending desires – always wanting more.

Sustainable lifestyle requires Constancy.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Sameness.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Repetition.

Development is associated with Change.
Development is associated with New.
Development is associated with Transience.

Industrial Societies can never be sustainable – When you make thousands of consumer goods you kill Nature - you kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".


A Society that does mental work [city based] can never be sustainable - it will keep on making consumer goods - destroying the environment moment by moment.

Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable.

The term Sustainable Development is like the terms

Stationary Walk.
Silent Talk.
Wakeful Sleep.
Dark Sun
Gentle Torture.
Dry Rain.
Peaceful War.

Infinite growth and development on a tiny planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference? - Industrial Society is insane.



Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

No Multi National Company can manufacture the Amazon Rainforests.
No MNC can manufacture Rivers and Oceans.
No MNC can manufacture Mountains and Deserts.
No MNC can manufacture milions of species and fertile soil.
No MNC can manufacture the Sun.

The glaciers have melted. Arctic Ice has melted. Man can use all his Technology - all the Refrigeration and AirConditioning Technology but he will not be able to recreate the glaciers and Arctic Ice.

Many species of wild animals used to have hundreds of thousands/ millions of members. Now it is down to a few hundred/ a few thousand. Which MNC is going to restore the animal population to its original level?

The Oceans have almost been emptied of all large Fish. Which MNC is going to bring the Fish back in the Ocean?

Man has hunted down several species to extinction after Industrial Revolution. Which MNC is going to make them reappear?



There was a time when Man used to say –

I work in order to feed my family.
I work in order to put Food on the Table.

Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.

Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, 200 TV Channels, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.


Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table.
There is too much weight on the Table.
And the Table has begun to creak.


The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys.

The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans - the Rivers and Lakes.


There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food.

We need just a few things to live.
And we are making thousands of things.

Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.

Destroy Shopping Culture.

Go back to Simple Living.
Go back to putting just Food on the Table.

sushil_yadav

[I am seeking help from volunteers in spreading this message far and wide]
Last edited by sushil_yadav on Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Nick Treklis » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:34 pm

sushil_yadav wrote:Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Dear Group Members,

I want to share my article with you. This is about the link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues. The article is also directly related to Spirituality. The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be spiritual or peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be spiritual or peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Thank you,
Sushil Yadav


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.



A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.


FAST VISUALS /WORDS MAKE SLOW EMOTIONS EXTINCT.

SCIENTIFIC /INDUSTRIAL /FINANCIAL THINKING DESTROYS EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.


To read the complete article please follow the link :

http://tinyurl.com/h2j3g


sushil_yadav


You are almost right. What you are speaking of is closely related to the reason why I quit my job. I had a job that was physically very easy, made descent money, and fit me in quite nicely with society. With all those benefits mentioned it still wasn't worth the burden it was putting on my spiritual development. I couldn't devote that much of myself to a job and still pursue the deeper things in life.

Still, it had nothing to do with emotions. I think you are right when describing emotion as something we fill in the gaps with between our breaks of our fast paced mentality. But the real issue is simply that the human brain needs it rest and when it doesn't it can't serve two masters. Such as attempting to serve culture and good philisophy at the same time. Philosophy that leads to Truth/God/Spirituality.

This causes us to end up shutting down the more evolved parts of the brain when we aren't forced to focus on the demanding needs of society. This then allows the primitive parts of the brain to take over during these periods. Things like emotions, sexual desire, and other primal impulses become the second biggest part of life.This can turn into a viscious cycle which is what has been going on since the begining of human culture.

In the end the reason civilization is so destructive isnt because people can't function correctly because they stop experiencing real emtions. It's because people are so overwhelmed by modern culture it makes it ever more difficult to develop good solid logic and reason. This type of culture manipulates our logic into a "machine", as you described it, dedicated to the most efficient way of satisfying culture.

People sub-consciously hate this, (but never realize it), so they force emotion into the picture as an outlet for their stress/anxiety/depression/etc. caused by the demands of society. Completely unreasonable emotion combined with our brain washed desire to satisfy modern society/culture has terrible consequences. Consequences which will ultimately destroy the human race if left unchecked.
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Postby Sapius » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:09 pm

Sushil, welcome.

Before some one else points out your emotional outcry as ludicrous, let me tell you that I do agree to quite a few things you say about humanity, however, in places you have described a mind to be exactly just that, but you fail to recognize that the same mind that destroys our planet also helps lift humanity off the planet.

Your reasoning is apt, I hope all use it, and at the same time don’t abandon advancement in favor of becoming farmers. Don’t think in small gaps, have a wider worldview, it is a mental evolution happening, and every dog has his day. Basically, it cannot be stopped, change, you see, which I take it you already understand.
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Postby sushil_yadav » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:16 pm

Thank you Nick and Sapius for expressing your views on the topic.


I would like to say a few things about work. Why do we work all the time - and why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop activity for even 2 minutes.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.


It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.


When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago. Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of suffering/ pain/ discomfort into peace. This requires ability and years of effort.

sushil_yadav
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Postby Ryan Rudolph » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:05 pm

Sapius wrote:

and at the same time don’t abandon advancement in favor of becoming farmers.


This is the weakest assertion you have ever made Sapius. You assume that one cannot be a farmer and be attentive to ones mind at the same time? This is incredibly narrow thinking on your part.

The mind is capable of developing many skills while still investing adequate energy into understanding the nature of the psyche.

To be holistic, one needs to acquire many techniques and growing food is definitely an essential one if we are to free ourselves from the grips of culture and also development sensitivity to the outward environment.
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Postby Sapius » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:19 am

CP

S: and at the same time don’t abandon advancement in favor of becoming farmers.

CP: This is the weakest assertion you have ever made Sapius. You assume that one cannot be a farmer and be attentive to ones mind at the same time? This is incredibly narrow thinking on your part.

Not only narrow. but half a thinking actually, because that is half my sentence, where is the rest my friend?

S: Your reasoning is apt, I hope all use it, and at the same time don’t abandon advancement in favor of becoming farmers.


Which translates….

CP: The mind is capable of developing many skills while still investing adequate energy into understanding the nature of the psyche.

To be holistic, one needs to acquire many techniques and growing food is definitely an essential one if we are to free ourselves from the grips of culture and also development sensitivity to the outward environment.


Where do I say sacrifice one for another? In fact I said the same thing as you, but not in so many words.
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Postby Ryan Rudolph » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:23 am

Sapius wrote:

Where do I say sacrifice one for another? In fact I said the same thing as you, but not in so many words.


my mistake, I should have read the post a little more closely.

okay Sapius, you're off the hook this time, but I'll be watching you closely mate!
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:03 am

sushil_yadav wrote:Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.



Hello Sushil, there are some interesting aspects to your reasoning but I'm not sure about your lexicon yet.

Can you first specify what exactly do you regard as emotion? Many would say 'pride', 'jealousy', 'anger', 'lust' and 'greed' are emotions or at least social emotions.

But it seems you are talking more about some kind of 'feeling', more like awareness or sensitivity. Or not?

Is peace an emotion?
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spengler decline of the west

Postby tharpa » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:08 am

I am currently chewing my way through Spengler's seminal 'Decline of the West', finally getting towards the end of the long, fascinating, but difficult introduction. It's effecting my prose construction!

He identifies in cultures the same basic 'morphology' that exists in all conglomerates, which simply put means that things arise, grow, age, then die. All societies and civilisations have done this in the past and there is no reason to assume that they will not do so in the future.

The work is translated from original German - which I cannot read - so the language is stilted, more so than it should be despite this being a formal work written about a century ago.

Still, he clearly identifies - and I think correctly - a difference between the 'Culture' and 'Civilisation' (and/or 'urbanisation') phases. Culture is a more idea-based, inspired phase, wherein the mechanical aspects are not the first concern, rather momentum, direction, esprit. So classical Greece is an example of the Age of Culture antecedent to later Rome's Civilisation, which was doomed by its very nature to collapse.

Some of the signs of such 'Civilisational' phase in this Spenglerian sense are an emphasis on money and profits, mechanics and systems, and military-colonial expansionism which at this stage of the culture, since it has lost its internal regenerative dynamism, has to express growth and expansion in crude physical terms, i.e. by dominating others and acquring territory. Such activity is essentially sterile, in a way depleting what little reserves are left in the original battery of the essential Culture which began the cycle.

He said back then that we were clearly in the Civilisational Phase, that soon there would be Big Men that would come on the scene, that socialism would develop into totalitarian command-and-conquer type initatives, after which the ending phase of the West would soon thereafter begin. well, that was a good call, with the world in 1945 essentially being carved up by a few great men, and with Soviet Russia managing almost to take over both Europe and China. That part is over, and now China is re-emerging into former greatness by climbing over the rubble of our over-developed technological market manic detritus. Whether or not she is just the last big guest to a party that is about to dissolve, or the first wave of a new emergent Culture phase about to blossom forth feeding on the compost of the disintegrating old, remains to be seen. In any case, he sure called the future for Europe well.

We are in that ending phase now. No longer can we assume - indeed never should we have but in the Culture phase this is more appropriate - that the trajectory is one of continuously onward and upward. This is a culturo-societal myth, as well as that which sustains both the false doctrines of evolution theory and modern capitalism, i.e. perpetual development from a common starting point, with time going forward in a simple linear progression, and progress being similar, i.e. non-cyclic. Monotheism is similarly anti-cyclic, and therefore deeply flawed when misapplied in mundane-secular affairs.

In any case, it is hardly surprising that we find more and more people becoming essentially dysfunctional in these latter days. Not only that, but even those who function well do not feel that things are alright. There is a quality of widespread anxiety and doubt pervading the developed West right now. Nobody can really say what 'victory' would mean in terms of any of the challenges facing us. And most of the liberal politics espoused by well-meaning 'lefties' in the west are the myopic shopping list of societial housewives, not the voices of a dynamic, enlightened culture.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby DHodges » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:35 am

sushil_yadav wrote:Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


This seems like a variation on an old theme: there was a Golden Age in the past where everything was perfect, but we've screwed it up and need to REPENT! to return to Eden.
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Postby Cory Duchesne » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:38 am

This seems like a variation on an old theme: there was a Golden Age in the past where everything was perfect, but we've screwed it up and need to REPENT! to return to Eden


I really dont think its as foolish as you think it is.

Sure there are really cartoony, maigical and immature notions of the garden of eden story - but there is also a realistic interpretations that are profound.

European explorers were notorious for going on big expeditions looking for the garden of eden, only to stumble upon natives who were puzzlingly healthy, generous and non-exploitative of each other. White man would slowly take control of the natives and abruptly turn what was the closest thing he'd ever find to garden of eden into hell on earth.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:28 pm

In the context of present and past lifestyle I would like to comment :

Suffering has always been a part of life. There was suffering in pre-industrial society - there is suffering in industrial society. Physical comforts have brought mental discomforts - hundreds of lifestyle related diseases.

I want to repeat what I pointed out in my previous post - suffering is present every moment of our life. We avoid suffering by working continuously. As soon as we stop working all the unused energy is experienced as suffering - restlessness, anxiety, pain, discomfort.


In pre-industrial society there was individual suffering but no largescale destruction of nature/ environment.

In industrial society there is individual suffering plus largescale destruction of nature/ environment.


The present lifestyle of humans has decimated millions of other species - and polluted the sky, land and oceans. If we continue making thousands of consumer goods - selling them to billions of people then very soon environment will get destroyed to such an extent that human life will cease to exist on this planet.

sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:11 pm

Dear friends,

I have made some additions to the article "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment". To read the modified article please follow any of these links :

PlanetSave
FreeInfoSociety
ePhilosopher
Corrupt

sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:38 am

Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
PlanetSave
FreeInfoSociety
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Corrupt
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Re:

Postby Faust » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:11 pm

[quote="Cory Duchesne]I really dont think its as foolish as you think it is.

Sure there are really cartoony, maigical and immature notions of the garden of eden story - but there is also a realistic interpretations that are profound.

European explorers were notorious for going on big expeditions looking for the garden of eden, only to stumble upon natives who were puzzlingly healthy, generous and non-exploitative of each other. White man would slowly take control of the natives and abruptly turn what was the closest thing he'd ever find to garden of eden into hell on earth.[/quote]

No it really is foolish... The natives that Europeans found were nothing, insignificant, they were savages who practiced cannibalism and satisfied their most primitive urges and that's it. No thinking, no culture, no philosophy, no science, etc etc... It was as close to Communism as you would ever get, and consequently it was terrible. Oh and many natives fought wars and did crazy sacrifices and shit, don't give me that nonsense "non-exploitative." Civilization isn't hell on earth at all, why don't you go live in the jungles of Borneo for a few days then tell me how bad and uncomfortable and hellish civilization is.


For the rest of that nonsense, gobbledygook Communist/hippie article, the environment is going to be adequately fine. Do you know that only 5% of U.S. Land is built on?
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Re: Re:

Postby sushil_yadav » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:42 pm


For the rest of that nonsense, gobbledygook Communist/hippie article, the environment is going to be adequately fine. Do you know that only 5% of U.S. Land is built on?


Here comes the wise one preaching wisdom to the world.

You are talking about Ammerikka - the land where 5% of world population is consuming 40% of world resources. The entire world knows - The Great American Dream is a Nightmare for the planet.

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
PlanetSave
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Jamesh » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:06 pm

You are talking about Ammerikka - the land where 5% of world population is consuming 40% of world resources. The entire world knows - The Great American Dream is a Nightmare for the planet.


It all depends on where you place your perspective. If you think really long term, well one planet simply ain't good enough and the good old USA has been leading the world to develop the means to get over this problem. We'll get plenty of chance to experiment with terraforming on earth, due to consumption problems, before we rocket off to some other planet. Geez we'll even be able to genetically adapt ourselves to less suitable planets.

So I think it is best we find a way to acheive this outcome, before the next event that kills all complex life on earth. At present even a common, say about every 600,000 year supervolcano could cause the extinction of the human race without the type of technological development that excesses allow.

That there is a far greater chance we will blow everyone up, or create an unstoppable virsus, or something of that sort, is probably a lot more likely to occur in the meantime. Might not though, we simply cannot know the future, and as a result the comforts of consumption take upper stage in virtually everyone's priorty list. We'll cross that bridge when enough of us come to it. Direct noticable personal harm from pollution has to reach deeply into the hearts of the powerful or rich.

Edit: Now that I've looked a bit more at the thread I see Sapius had already said this
Before some one else points out your emotional outcry as ludicrous, let me tell you that I do agree to quite a few things you say about humanity, however, in places you have described a mind to be exactly just that, but you fail to recognize that the same mind that destroys our planet also helps lift humanity off the planet.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Ataraxia » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:46 am

It is too late for a Return to Eden in this world.We need a new world.

Only scientists can find it.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:06 pm

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
sushil_yadav wrote:Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


Hello Sushil, there are some interesting aspects to your reasoning but I'm not sure about your lexicon yet.

Can you first specify what exactly do you regard as emotion? Many would say 'pride', 'jealousy', 'anger', 'lust' and 'greed' are emotions or at least social emotions.

But it seems you are talking more about some kind of 'feeling', more like awareness or sensitivity. Or not?

Is peace an emotion?


Diebert van Rhijn,

Yes, peaceful states of mind are emotions.

Thoughts and Emotions are interlinked - but different things - totally/ completly different.

Words can be spoken - words can be read - words can be heard. Visuals can be seen.

Emotion is a subjective-experience. Other examples of subjective experience are taste, smell, touch, headache, stomach pain.

One can understand the difference this way :

When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. Apple can give us the taste of apple - but apple is not taste.

If we pour apple juice into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste - it does not have the ability to feel taste.

If a person eats an apple he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to generate taste from apple.

Words/ Visuals can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions - but words/ visuals are not emotions.



In every field there is easy work/activity and difficult work/activity.

In mathematics there is easy mathematics and difficult mathematics. Everyone can add 2+4 within microseconds. A PhD level problem of mathematics would take hours [or more] to solve - and that too only by someone who has spent 20 - 25 years learning mathematics upto PhD level.

Same way in the field of emotions there are easy emotions and difficult emotions. Easy emotions are evoked within nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds - anger, lust, fear, pleasure, entertainment and excitement are some examples. These emotions are associated with fast breathing and heart-rate. These emotions don"t require gaps between thinking to evoke, intensify and sustain. These are the emotions that can be found everywhere in today's fast society.

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain.

[Please note :
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate.
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate.
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute.
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences.]

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Re: spengler decline of the west

Postby sushil_yadav » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:23 pm

tharpa wrote:I am currently chewing my way through Spengler's seminal 'Decline of the West',

We are in that ending phase now. No longer can we assume - indeed never should we have but in the Culture phase this is more appropriate - that the trajectory is one of continuously onward and upward. This is a culturo-societal myth, as well as that which sustains both the false doctrines of evolution theory and modern capitalism, i.e. perpetual development from a common starting point, with time going forward in a simple linear progression, and progress being similar, i.e. non-cyclic. Monotheism is similarly anti-cyclic, and therefore deeply flawed when misapplied in mundane-secular affairs.

In any case, it is hardly surprising that we find more and more people becoming essentially dysfunctional in these latter days. Not only that, but even those who function well do not feel that things are alright. There is a quality of widespread anxiety and doubt pervading the developed West right now. Nobody can really say what 'victory' would mean in terms of any of the challenges facing us. And most of the liberal politics espoused by well-meaning 'lefties' in the west are the myopic shopping list of societial housewives, not the voices of a dynamic, enlightened culture.


tharpa,

Humans have never made solutions - humans have always created problems. All solutions of Man have actually been problems in disguise. They have led to bigger and greater problems.

Two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism. Science and Technology is responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of Science, Technology, Industrialization/ Industrial Revolution the two problems of overpopulation and overconsumerism would not exist.

(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).
(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.


Intelligence Is A Curse.
This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]

Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things [Consumer Goods].

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:57 pm

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things [Consumer Goods].

When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industry/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.


"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"

These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".



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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby daybrown » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:25 pm

The sciences of genetics and neurology are finding the root of the problem.
But, lets begin with archeology, which reports that the contents of bog body stomachs and bone middens show that Europeans evolved eating over 100 wild plants and animals over the course of at least the last 10,000 years. And the lab reports are, that this supplied a wide variety of trace minerals and micro-nutrients absorbed by veggies from the biota in the soil.

Civilization, not just industrial society, messes with that. The power elites *always* go into monoculture to feed the slave classes as cheaply as possible. In the New World, maize. In the Old, wheat. You get what you pay for. Corn is much more productive/acre, but lacks the high quality protein needed to build sound minds.

Turns out that the 150 neurotransmitters that have been identified so far use these minute, even homeopathic traces of compounds in the laying down of new neural pathways during learning. If they are not there, then the neurotransmitters will try to make do with any similar molecules, like the traces of organo-phosphates left as pesticide residue on agribusiness production. The result is the alarming rise of autism, ADD, ADHD, ICD, and whatever they put a name on next month. But its also increasing the general level of neurosis in the whole society, and that in turn, increases the vulnerability to demagoguery.

You can track the decline in academic performance with the increase in agribusiness chemicals. And, you can look at those few regions which have lower consumption of agribusiness food. Amish kids, for instance, are still raised on what we'd otherwise call, "organic" home grown veggies. The national autism rate is 1:166. the rate for Amish kids: 1 in 15,000.

You can also get out an atlas, and look up the small southern Ozark hill towns like Alread, Bee Branch, Clinton, Deer, Eureka Springs, Flippin, Greer's Ferry, Heber Springs, ect thru the alphabet, then look at the school report: http://normessasweb.uark.edu/reportcards/select.php

If you know anything about statistics, the numbers jump right out at you. The population is low, but as far as I can tell, these kids have a 1:4000 autism rate in towns that dont have junk food vending machines in the schools, much less fast food outlets in town. But some numbers are there in the database: *zero* rates of violence. Dropout rates in the single digits. Graduation rates near 90%, attendance near 95.

And its not just this year. I've been watching this for 11 years now, ever since my son graduated from Leslie high, and I found out that 25% of the class scored over 30 (95th percentile) on the ACT. Hello? The classes in the above link routinely score, not at the 50th, but range from the 55th to the 65th on *AVERAGE*!

And, this with school systems that have the 2nd lowest teacher pay in the nation. What's going on here? Lotsa things. But partly, its because the hills are too steep for agribusiness, and there is no industrial pollution. Its still all family farms that average about 200 acres rather than 2000 acre agribusiness. The farms are into grass fed beef and has fields. No pesticide or herbicide use. No air pollution. Clean water.

The water is so clean, that the Little Red River, 20 miles from me produced the world record holder brown trout. 52 lb. It draws fly fishermen from all over the world, and they have the *money* to make sure these watersheds are not polluted to mess with the trout fishing.

Now, lets contrast this with the Romans. It was upscale for them to throw out the pottery and put *lead* pots on the stove to cook with. A favored fish sauce, that stood on every rich man's table, came in a lead bottle, with the high acid leaching lead. As a result, the birth rate for aristocracy fell. The first "family values" guy was Augustus, who saw the problem, but didnt know the cause. We all now know what lead does to IQ.

And we also know what a monoculture diet does to IQ. which explains why the slave class was so stupid. And when you read Gibbon, you can see that the most successful and talented emperors didnt grow up in Rome, but came from the boondox where people still ate a varied diet including wild food.

But that's not the only problem. NYC has lotsa young black men who grew up in the Carribean island villages, and like pagans, eating locally grown 'organic' food. And when they move to the big city, they dont have nearly the crime or domestic abuse rate of African American boys whose DNA is the same.

Same problem with the Maya and Chaco Canyon, where, as the culture got more organized, it went more exclusively into maize production. I was born on a farm in MN in 1939. We fed the horses oats cause we wanted strong, smart horses. We fed the pigs corn cause we wanted fat bacon, and nobody wants a smart pig. If what I wanted was stupid kids, I'd raise them on soul food. They fed us kids oats for breakfast, not grits. compare the politics of the grit eating south with the oat eating upper midwest.

So- the premise of the thread is basically correct, but the scope of the problem is dramatically exacerbated by raising kids on sugar cereals, junkfood, and soda. But the parents are in denial about this cause they dont want to think about what their own parents did to them, much less what they do to their own kids.

This threatens the very stability of the whole system. After finding out about all this, I've never been so glad that I tried to raise my own kids here, and that my ass is now about as far back in the boonies as I can get. I am also actively involved in ramping up production of my organic garden.

A little, or a lot of critical thinking before trying to refute all this. I really dont care whether you agree or not. Its a free country. Those who have kids can make their own judgment and live with the consequences. The kids that I personally know did better than those in the city. Some people seem to be catching on cause there is a dramatic increase in the numbers moving out here, and corporations have realized that the work force is more stable. As a result the area actually has a rise in *manufacturing* jobs.

There's a strip city growing up along I-540 in the West Ozarks, from Fayetteville to the MO border. Engineers and professionals moving in from all over the world with high tech startups still increasing. there's a net *increase* in personnel from other high tech regions. The school performance for the kids of the professional class has something to do with it.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby sushil_yadav » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:12 pm

Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Non-industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter plus thousands of unnecessary consumer goods.

Industrial society destroys necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

Non-industrial societies have sustained on earth for thousands of years.
Industrial society has destroyed all ecosystems within 200 - 250 years.



"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"

These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".




Destroy consumerism.....before it is too late.

Destroy Industrial Society.

Just do it.



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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Diebert van Rhijn » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:03 pm

sushil_yadav wrote:Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.


Homo Sapiens is around for 200,000 years now and how much longer? Compare this to sharks who are already successful for 400,000,000 years. If numbers would mean anything here we should convert ourselves to sharks, grow some fins and teeth.

Non-industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter plus thousands of unnecessary consumer goods.

Industrial society destroys necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.


Unnecessary for survival of an individual. It might be part of the survival of the type of economy we're enjoying, mostly driven by surplus, demand, waste and over-the-top richness at its peaks.

Nature works by abundance more than it's in some 'survival mode'. That abundance means maximizing offspring as to preempt forces that are working to its exstinction. An animal could have for example thousands of babies knowing only a few will get to adulthood. The animal is 'destroying' babies in industrial fashion - infanticide! By our standards of course.

The babies in this society are beyond the organism. We have become so much more than a collection of bipedalists. It's like our organs have turned inside out. But for any valuable heart or brain part we need a lot of guts and gutters to support it.

Non-industrial societies have sustained on earth for thousands of years.
Industrial society has destroyed all ecosystems within 200 - 250 years.


Non-industrial societies had a small footprint because they had such small feet. In terms of power they were almost non-existence. Industrial society wields immense powers, with all the culture, science, waste, waste and waste as consequences.

Destroy consumerism.....before it is too late.

Destroy Industrial Society.

Just do it.


Destruction is already part of consumerism, literally as well as psychologically. An individual could step out but the whole machinery will go on until it has run its course.
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Postby Jason » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:09 pm

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Homo Sapiens is around for 200,000 years now and how much longer? Compare this to sharks who are already successful for 400,000,000 years. If numbers would mean anything here we should convert ourselves to sharks, grow some fins and teeth.


Evolution and natural selection have developed some "simple" technologies and weapons, like teeth, claws, camouflage and legs. I wonder, given another billion years or so, is it possible that some sub-human-intelligence animals could naturally evolve jet engines for movement, laser beams for attacking prey, and holographic projection to fool predators. Maybe some literally brainless animal will, at some point, go nuclear, and be able to destroy the entire planet with the natural bodily capabilities evolution has given it. Or maybe they could even become interstellar travellers eventually, imagine if aliens arrived at Earth but they were only as smart as fleas.
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