ENLIGHTENMENT???

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Lisa
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ENLIGHTENMENT???

Post by Lisa »

When I saw the heading 'enlightenment'
my immidiate reaction was,

"Is there enlightenment at all".

Tell me if anyone agrees with me here???

I'll explain what I think.

If there is enlightenment, as a human,

then does that mean humans are 'learning to love',

as if we don't really enjoy loving and have to be promted

with pain?? Does it mean humans are leading towards

something we've never experienced before, or does

enlightenment mean we are returning to grace??

If we are returning, then why did we fall?? That's just a few

questions that come to my mind.

I want what people call assention, but I believe that 'assention'

is balancing endocryne system, therefore hormones,

looking after our body, eating a top diet, etc.

So why are humans not already in this state?? Why are animal

equipt on this planet and humans not??

I've been researching reciently into geniuses, and it turns out

when anyones left brain is switched off or seriously damaged in

stroke, or they suffer from dementia, Autism, or they have a

bullet in their LEFT brain, they develop savant skills, they

wouldn't otherwise have. So if the left brain is becoming

DAMAGEDd, and we are GAINING skills, what does this

suggest??? WE already know we use tiny amount of our brain,

but why is this??

Anyway, the sites that I found with the evidence are

Allan Snyders website.

the centre for the mind,

and http://www.kaleidos.org.uk

both have really interesting info.

What does everyone think about this??

E-mail me if you like,

contact@rawpoet.com

Thanks, Lisa.
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Cory Duchesne
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Post by Cory Duchesne »

Lisa wrote:
When I saw the heading 'enlightenment'
my immidiate reaction was,
"Is there enlightenment at all".
Tell me if anyone agrees with me here???
I'll explain what I think.
If there is enlightenment, as a human,
then does that mean humans are 'learning to love',
as if we don't really enjoy loving and have to be promted
with pain?? Does it mean humans are leading towards
something we've never experienced before, or does
enlightenment mean we are returning to grace??
I read the left in the dark article, and I'll admit it was quite interesting.

As for the Fall from grace, did you read this article by Jared Diamond?

http://www.agron.iastate.edu/courses/ag ... stake.html

Take a read of it and tell me what you think.

He, among others think that Humanity was for the most part well balanced and peaceful before and until we developed agriculture. The advent of agriculture lead to crowding, destruction of soil, consequent migration, whitening of skin, more destruction of soil, more migration, more crowding, unbalanced diet, weakened immunity, thus new diseases, severely increased labour, despotism, loss of sensitivity to nature = unreceptive, 1 dimensional thinking, etc, etc....the list goes on.

In order to survive in a world divorced from nature, man's linear, 1 to 2 dimensional logic became more and more over-developed, it lead to him to develeop increasingly sophisticated techniques for exploiting nature, animals, and his own kin. His logic became analogous to a city - over-developed, narrow, unbalanced, divorced from nature, and exploitative.
Sjorssnors
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Post by Sjorssnors »

Indeed very interesting and if I may say, very essential.
Has humanity suffered from a progressive neurological condition that has distorted our perception?
Do we still have unimaginable potential just waiting to be unlocked?
Yes there is ! It is indeed distorted for almost all people. Almost all people percept in 'explicit ways', because they where teached to do so.
‘Release the genius inside you – Shut down your brain’
One learns to 'percept by experiances' if one is teached to do so. One can learn that by giving him 'indirect information'. That way one must associate himself, and using that way of perception developes 'recognizion of the subconscious clue's and signes, what creates understanding and recognition about 'nature of things'.
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Blair
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Post by Blair »

Enlightenment is understanding that nothing exists.

If you are clinging to something, you suffer. Attachment is suffering.
Leyla Shen
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Post by Leyla Shen »

No. It's the understanding that things lack inherent existence.

.
unwise
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Post by unwise »

Doesn't a good scientist know that things lack inherent existence?

The brain is a filtering device whose purpose is to FILTER OUT massive amounts of available knowledge. When damaged it often lets in and makes available vast abilities and information. The miracle of life is that you can seem to be so limited. We desire this.
R. Steven Coyle
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Post by R. Steven Coyle »

unwise wrote:Doesn't a good scientist know that things lack inherent existence?
[cough]
The brain is a filtering device whose purpose is to FILTER OUT massive amounts of available knowledge. When damaged it often lets in and makes available vast abilities and information. The miracle of life is that you can seem to be so limited. We desire this.
You desire it, unwise.

You.
bert
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Post by bert »

enlightenment needs your failing to see yourself in all things.
unwise
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Post by unwise »

Believe me, God desires limitation - else the world would not appear with all of its tricks and illusions. Don't think that Steve is bigger than God - that would be laughable.
Steven Coyle

Post by Steven Coyle »

unwise wrote:Believe me, God desires limitation - else the world would not appear with all of its tricks and illusions. Don't think that Steve is bigger than God - that would be laughable.
No, I don't think I'm bigger than God.

Your statement is God.
Sonata
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Re: ENLIGHTENMENT???

Post by Sonata »

Lisa wrote:When I saw the heading 'enlightenment'
my immidiate reaction was,

"Is there enlightenment at all".

Tell me if anyone agrees with me here???

I'll explain what I think.

If there is enlightenment, as a human,

then does that mean humans are 'learning to love',

as if we don't really enjoy loving and have to be promted

with pain?? Does it mean humans are leading towards

something we've never experienced before, or does

enlightenment mean we are returning to grace??

If we are returning, then why did we fall?? That's just a few

questions that come to my mind.

I want what people call assention, but I believe that 'assention'

is balancing endocryne system, therefore hormones,

looking after our body, eating a top diet, etc.

So why are humans not already in this state?? Why are animal

equipt on this planet and humans not??

I've been researching reciently into geniuses, and it turns out

when anyones left brain is switched off or seriously damaged in

stroke, or they suffer from dementia, Autism, or they have a

bullet in their LEFT brain, they develop savant skills, they

wouldn't otherwise have. So if the left brain is becoming

DAMAGEDd, and we are GAINING skills, what does this

suggest??? WE already know we use tiny amount of our brain,

but why is this??

Anyway, the sites that I found with the evidence are

Allan Snyders website.

the centre for the mind,

and http://www.kaleidos.org.uk

both have really interesting info.

What does everyone think about this??

E-mail me if you like,

contact@rawpoet.com

Thanks, Lisa.
But this isnt a discription of a human at all its much to advanced. Something else perhaps but possible at this state of biology. Artificial evolution still wouldnt be possible.
Kevin Solway
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Re: ENLIGHTENMENT???

Post by Kevin Solway »

Lisa wrote:If there is enlightenment, as a human,

then does that mean humans are 'learning to love',
It depends what you think "enlightenment" is.

As far as I'm concerned, enlightenment is about learning to live in accord with the truth.

If we are returning, then why did we fall??
Dishonesty and lies can provide a survival advantage in some circumstances.

Our species has used that advantage, so far.

So why are humans not already in this state?? Why are animal
equipt on this planet and humans not??
Animals are not equipped.

99% of animal species have become extinct.

WE already know we use tiny amount of our brain
That is a myth. Brain scanning technology shows that we use all of our brains.
Tharan
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Post by Tharan »

I know for a fact that I only use 10%.
Kevin Solway
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Post by Kevin Solway »

Tharan wrote:I know for a fact that I only use 10%.
You must be using the other 90% for lighting-up the medical scanners.

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that we only utilize 10% of the brain's potential.
Sjorssnors
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Post by Sjorssnors »

'Enlightenment' can be achieved by not trying to achieve it. It will appear within the reach of ‘experiences’.
Sapius
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Post by Sapius »

Sjorssnors wrote:'Enlightenment' can be achieved by not trying to achieve it. It will appear within the reach of ‘experiences’.
Absolutely.

The word "enlightenment" itself misleads one to search for what has been differently defined by different people and selects one of them since it suites his own personal accepted understandings, or derives a variation of it.

All one needs is a burning quest to question and understand existence at its core, question all that one experiences, and how and why?
---------
Sjorssnors
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Post by Sjorssnors »

Sapius wrote: All one needs is a burning quest to question and understand existence at its core, question all that one experiences, and how and why?
‘Questions’ must lead to ‘explicit answers’ to become understood. For answers ‘one reality’ is essential and also it must accord to the other answers, it must fit into 'the big picture'. That 'big picture' is in the subconscious mind and the conscious mind must only confirm intuitive associations to get the answers.
Tharan
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Post by Tharan »

ksolway wrote:
Tharan wrote:I know for a fact that I only use 10%.
You must be using the other 90% for lighting-up the medical scanners.
And using my X-ray vision to familiarize myself with the cute nurse....her "internal processes," so to speak.
Sapius
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Post by Sapius »

Jorss,
That 'big picture' is in the subconscious mind and the conscious mind must only confirm intuitive associations to get the answers.
It really does not matter how you arrive at the "big picture", as long as it makes absolute sense to you, leaving no doubts whatsoever.
---------
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Blair
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Post by Blair »

Leyla Shen wrote:No. It's the understanding that things lack inherent existence..
Yes, sure. But the word existence implies inherency does it not?, as in the inherent meaning of any word which is illusory and relative in nature. All words. All anything. Scraping.
Leyla Shen
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Post by Leyla Shen »

Well, hm. Not in my mind. The only (non-)thing intrinsic to existence is the lack of inherent existence -- without which no thing could exist. That is, things exist because they depend on other things to do so. When you can point to a thing that exists that does not depend on the existence of other things, a thing that does not change, then you can infer inherent existence, but I think you would necessarily be wrong both logically and empirically.

.
Sjorssnors
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Post by Sjorssnors »

Leyla Shen wrote:Well, hm. Not in my mind. The only (non-)thing intrinsic to existence is the lack of inherent existence -- without which no thing could exist. That is, things exist because they depend on other things to do so. When you can point to a thing that exists that does not depend on the existence of other things, a thing that does not change, then you can infer inherent existence, but I think you would necessarily be wrong both logically and empirically.

.
Indeed it is. However, all ‘those thing you can point on’ must get some ‘conclusions’ to become part of the ‘subconscious reality’. Only in the reality of the subconscious mind it is ‘one whole’, and so new input (point‘s, marks) most allot to ‘points in mind’. By using all intuition it gets the right answers, so the conscious mind dos not have to define new perceptions. That way perceptions are being recognized and ‘new marks’ appear automatically, because the mind is ‘open’, and the total perspective is ‘understood’.

Maybe that is because I have Asperger-syndrome, but I recognize also that all people can understand that way of perception if they where teached to do so from the beginning.

A comparable perspective that recently came across : http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/sci ... at-boh.htm

edit

'Not-being-explicit' is knowing there is more explanations to understand within one perspective.
bert
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Post by bert »

Leyla Shen wrote:Well, hm. Not in my mind. The only (non-)thing intrinsic to existence is the lack of inherent existence -- without which no thing could exist. That is, things exist because they depend on other things to do so. When you can point to a thing that exists that does not depend on the existence of other things, a thing that does not change, then you can infer inherent existence, but I think you would necessarily be wrong both logically and empirically.

.
hi leyla,

what if events are fore-tellable ?do things inherently exist then?
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Sjors,
I apologize if I sound rude, but could you lay off the quotation marks? I'm finding it really hard to read your writing. If you need to emphasize a word, please use italics. When you use quotation marks profusely, it looks like you are being creative with word definitions, so I'm left guessing whether I read you correctly or not.
Sjorssnors
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Post by Sjorssnors »

mookestink wrote:Sjors,
I apologize if I sound rude, but could you lay off the quotation marks? I'm finding it really hard to read your writing. If you need to emphasize a word, please use italics. When you use quotation marks profusely, it looks like you are being creative with word definitions, so I'm left guessing whether I read you correctly or not.
I have a Asperger-syndrome and I'm extremely thinking in pictures (not words). To communicate my perspective, I must 'encode' it to words, what is not easy to do for me, because of my ‘implicit thoughts’.
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