Judging Others

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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sue hindmarsh
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Re: Judging Others

Post by sue hindmarsh »

Dan wrote:
It's amazing how many people can tell you what is morally bad, but really struggle if asked to give an account of that judgement.
Nick suggested this very popular no-brainer:
In the Bible it says...
I reckon this one would also get a fair workout:

My wife says so.
brokenhead
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Re: Judging Others

Post by brokenhead »

Philo wrote:Perhaps you think that, but that has nothing to do with the psychological use of the term "neurotic." A "neurotic" trait is just a preoccupation that causes a person distress, as many people today experience with regard to their cell phone use -- for example when the phone goes out, when they are left without it, and so on. The fact that a person is neurotic about something says nothing about his moral standing.
Good point.
Carl G wrote:What has public safety and social manners to do with morality?
But for fate, they are generally correlated, are they not? If you lack all morals, what would compel you comply with public safety mandates other than fear of getting caught? If a thing is morally right, it will be publically safe, in general. Morals relate to your inner obligations, public safety and social manners to your external obligations. You could not function if they were completely unrelated.
When you understand - in fact see, that everyone has the same, identical core, that is pure and unsullied, you can then accept everyone as they are.
I don't know who wrote this. Was it Iolaus? Anyway, samadhi said "Indeed." to it. As long as we make it clear that even if we don't condemn the sinner, we must condemn the sin. Listen, literally accepting "everyone as they are" could mean accepting Hitler while he was shoveling Jews into ovens.
Dan Rowden wrote:We could discuss this over a few beers sometime, expect that American beer and cat's piss are indistinguishable.
American beer is not just Budweiser. Ever had a Sam Adams? And there are many wonderful microbreweries springing up in the US.
Your constant insinuation that I wear my admin status on my sleeve as a poster is one you can fairly shove up your arse. I do not. You seem to have some kind of authority issue
Yeah, mikiel, he doesn't. In fact, it's work. This forum doesn't just happen.
Philo wrote:If it were my call, I wouldn't have banned Sam, but I can see David's point that Sam's attitude and style of posting were antithetical to the goals of the forum.
Again, I have to agree. I pretty much ignored sam's posts, but that's just because they never really said anything.
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Blair
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Blair »

Samahdi was a dick, but so is mikeil, cut from the same cloth.

Why can't they both be banned?
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Dan Rowden »

It's a mystery, like why you can't contribute anything more substantial than that.
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

Shahrazad wrote:David,

He may be like me and just sucks at philosophy, but is very good at other things that require high intelligence. I hardly ever call anybody dumb because I could be falling into assessing them along a single dimension, and there are many dimensions to a person's brain power. Even the smartest person does badly in some fields. You, for example, may be terrible at math, and/or physics.
It goes without saying that my judgment is made in the context of philosophy and spirituality.

On the other hand, philosophy/spirituality isn't just another compartmentalized topic like math is. It goes deeper than that. It underpins everything that we think and do, regardless of what area we happen to be immersed in at any given moment. If a person sucks at that, then it essentially means that he sucks at life itself. He sucks at being conscious.

To allow oneself to be smart in one area of life, such as math, while remaining dumb in the wider, more important area of philosophy/spirituality is .... it has to be said ..... pretty dumb.

-
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

David,
If a person sucks at that, then it essentially means that he sucks at life itself. He sucks at being conscious.
No doubt this is the way you look at things, but I'll have to say I strongly disagree. You don't get to set the purpose of everybody else's life, just your own. There may be as many purposes as there are people.
To allow oneself to be smart in one area of life, such as math, while remaining dumb in the wider, more important area of philosophy/spirituality is .... it has to be said ..... pretty dumb.
Same as above.

.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Alex Jacob wrote: [Mikiel is, it seems, the psychological doppelganger, the forgotten relative who pops up through the Ouija board, the poltergeist in a spooky teenage girl's bedroom closet, who just won't go away---like a dream that repeats itself until one psychologically gets it.

[I wonder sometimes if I am the only one who sees these things?
No, but you're the only one who keeps harping about it as if you're saying something relevant. Your account of the process seems like a rather limited, specific, personalized instance of a much more general thing. Have you ever been in a message board or any group at all where this phenomenon doesn't happen? But you might not see that from the analyst's chair you've carved out for your self.
[Thing get so odd around here from time to time. Each person's distortions, to which each is blind, get so oddly blown out of proportion, and these distortions are at the same time reflected in others who exist in a 180 degree opposite plane of mental existence. And then they go at each other like giant, lumbering Quixotes on a bizarre Holy Mission.
Projections and reflections are part and parcel of how all inter-relating goes, everywhere, every time. It doesn't mean repression and distortion is always the case, that's just your psycho-analytic obsession speaking!

Have you examined your own shadows cast? Your own distortions you're adding to your image of people here? My impression is that you don't and it might explain why you are here talking like that, again and again, seemingly puzzled by the labyrinth of your own making.
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

Shahrazad wrote:David,
If a person sucks at that, then it essentially means that he sucks at life itself. He sucks at being conscious.
No doubt this is the way you look at things, but I'll have to say I strongly disagree. You don't get to set the purpose of everybody else's life, just your own. There may be as many purposes as there are people.
Indeed there are. But nonetheless, living consciously is living consciously. One either strives to actualize it or one doesn't.

Most people don't strive for it, and they are always quick to rationalize this lack of ambition. They always want their timidness to be validated.

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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

Ambitious people don't impress me.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Dan Rowden »

Generally speaking.
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

What is so impressive about being "greedy"?
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Dan Rowden »

Ambition is a relative judgement, as you know. Ambition and greed are not the same thing.
brokenhead
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Re: Judging Others

Post by brokenhead »

Shahrazad wrote:Ambitious people don't impress me.
It's gratifying to hear a woman say this, Shah. But it's kind of like a guy saying "good looks are not the most important thing in a woman."

I think you are saying, if an ambitious person were to impress me, it would be the person rather than the ambition that was being impressive. Because clearly lack of ambition in itself can't be very impressive, either, can it?
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

Broken,
I think you are saying, if an ambitious person were to impress me, it would be the person rather than the ambition that was being impressive.
So to you I have to spell out things more clearly. Ok. Ambition is not a quality that impresses me in a person.

Because clearly lack of ambition in itself can't be very impressive, either, can it?
No, not in itself.

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brokenhead
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Re: Judging Others

Post by brokenhead »

Shah wrote:So to you I have to spell out things more clearly. Ok. Ambition is not a quality that impresses me in a person.
Well, this is a public fourm. Can't really put too fine a point on things for the more broken of us heads...
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Alex Jacob
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Alex Jacob »

Diebert, if this (irrelevant) observation of mine were considered by the Quintuplets, it would lead to a certain shift in the conversations and also possibly to a way out of the more stupid aspects of dull conversations. Meaning, there would be greater frequency of more interesting conversations.

Of course I examine my own shadows cast! Simply put, I make an art out of it.

Your a nice guy, Diebert, but I'm sorry that I must ban you for awhile just for being a stubbort Dutchman. I give you a few days to finish your business here and then...time for a little vacation.
Ni ange, ni bête
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Tomas
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Tomas »

Alex Jacob writes:
Your a nice guy, Diebert, but I'm sorry that I must ban you for awhile just for being a stubborn Dutchman. I give you a few days to finish your business here and then...time for a little vacation.


Furthermore:

Quinn-tuplets have now expanded to include the likes of

David

Kevin

Dan

Diebert

Ryan

Carl (sorry Carl, but you called Ryan a "bro'", thus he is higher on the pecking order)

----

Second tier enlightenment level:

David Hodges

Mikiel

Cory

snow bunny

Dave Toast

----

Third tier enlightenment level:

Tek0

Philosophaster (provided not a woman)

Samadhi

---

Fourth tier (sucking hind tit) enlightenment level:

Trevor

maestro

Faust

brokenhead

Nick

Monster Cock

Victor

Unidian

daybrown

hsandman

Alex

---

Honorable mention enlightenment level:

Sue

Elizabeth

Leyla

Shahrazad

Iolaus

Trixie

Marsha Faizi

(and all other women that Ryan disdains)



.
Last edited by Tomas on Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Alex Jacob wrote:... a way out of the more stupid aspects of dull conversations. Meaning, there would be greater frequency of more interesting conversations.
There's a whole list of people to ban first before that might happen! Anything below Tomas' second tier perhaps. I hope you do realize that your posts are quite dull as well. Beautiful at times but still rather dull. Surfing the surface but never the nerve!

It's always time for a vacation because everything done regularly can become habit or rut, no matter which activity and so become a subtle influence on its own, coloring our views and dulling the sharpness. Actually I'm off for weeks or sometimes months in a row from this forum. Or some months I read and write in only like one thread out of a dozen which I all skip on sight. You are right the time is near for another shift in interest. Often happens after a writing spike and its aftermath.

It's possible you might miss me as I might be the only person who could really appreciate your posts although I increasingly fail to do so. It's time to kick in another persona, if I were you.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Alex Jacob »

But what would the Quintuplets talk about if it weren't for the various tiers that extend, down into the dark fibres of the Earth, from their elevated persons?

The more sophisticated cultural offerings, say like in music, received the original inspiration from a folk melody, or some beautiful natural scene, the movement of the water, that sort of thing. The best in literature and art is always based in some connection with the human world, never in separation from it.

The odd thing is that 'enlightenment' is by its very definition not of the Earth. Ain't that peculiar? In Aristotelian thinking, all of the vast interrelationships of real things in the real world become the basis of all that it is possible to think. Mind and thinking are epiphenomena that are therefor linked to the world, even though it seems this might not be the case, and thought can separate from its matrix, or seem to.

Remember the spaceship that takes off into orbit and sends back signals?

If the Quintuplets were careening through space, and if all you had were these 5 minds, slowly and surely like a clock ticking down there'd be less and less and less to talk about. Less to know. Thinking (and all else) would cave in on itself since it no longer had a matrix to support it, that is to say, The World.

We who are sent to you by The World try to beat on your noggins the Morse code of 'reality', like swarms of woodpeckers, like some devilish pebble torture.

Sail, sail away in Golden Chariots! The Earth is a magnet after all, we'll be seeing each other soon enough!
Ni ange, ni bête
Steven Coyle

Re: Judging Others

Post by Steven Coyle »

Enlightened and a Shaman (sharpening his eagle claw with Worldly Matters)?

In many traditions, the shaman wore a dress...
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Alex Jacob wrote:
Remember the spaceship that takes off into orbit and sends back signals?
But the analogy implied that deep space was home base - the World - and the planet an imaginary construct inhabited by ghostly gravediggers.

All your cherished art and literature are funeral marches and imagery, essentially, in this context. There's no point wooing anyone with it here - when the direction has been set space-wards. It's you who appears like the alien, the out-cider in this setting, selling your erroneous concepts of what is real and true from the back of your otherworldly, but also rather familiar craft.
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Shahrazad
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Shahrazad »

Tomas, how come you're not in the list of the enlightened wannabes?
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Alex Jacob
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Alex Jacob »

Then the analogy is a deceiving analogy, a trick of the mind. If there is 'enlightenment' (whatever is meant by this weird word) it HAS to be about enlightened life on the Earth itself. It starts with the core, the rocks, and then the soil, and the vegetation, the rivers, the animals, us and our life here. It goes upward from those things, but can never, ever leave those things. Any mythology, any story, any mental trip that asserts that as true, is selling snake oil, and false Texas Medicines and deadly Railroad Gins that 'strangle up your mind'.

Selah! Alex has spoken Truth. Get thee behind me, Great Lie!

And if the Earth---your platform---is really in your eyes a place of 'ghostly gravediggers', you are perhaps more invested in a false Christian conception than you let on.

Oh yes, most certainly, all the cherished literature and art, where the best of the best of what it can ever mean to be human, is most certainly just a dull funeral march...for those trudging off to other horizons. We are making real progress here in telling it like it is, Diebert. Thank you!

"It's you who appears like the alien, the outsider in this setting, selling your erroneous concepts of what is real and true from the back of your otherworldly, but also rather familiar craft."

That is a precious sentence and must be conserved! If you are serious---and I find it hard to believe that you are---you have exactly specified why I will not ever be able to take up your doctrines, and why it is IN FACT I feel I represent a spirituality far higher than yours. And this is fundamentally what all I write is about, and why it is deeply relevant to remain here and tell 'another story'.

I hope that at least you see WHY.

Yes, from your perspective(s) all that I say in this regard must be deathly boring, routine, vapid. I guess when one finally discovers what is REAL and VALUABLE, there is not other alternative.
__________________________________________________

Shah, you asked if we can ever really assess someone else in this context (I assume you meant this context), and I think we can to the degree that anyone who writes here allows themselves to be seen, who becomes real in this semi-unreal environment. As you can tell---I have nothing to hide in this---people get real to me when they demonstrate that they are people. If they sound and act like weird computers, or IT machines, or youthful Yodas who spend too much time preening themselves in mirrors of spiritual vanity (in other words, the Quintuplets), the real person seems to disappear, and what appears instead is what can only be a parody, a distortion, a 'false prophet of the Self'.

The people who reveal themselves as people, in our little fishbowl, are the ones who's words and sentiments (all that I can get in this medium) have value for me, a value that I can take away. For that reason, if I were to make my list of favorites, my list would include all those who express themselves as real persons, not as cartoons of self. The cartoons of self you just dismiss, it's just blather, something some kid thought in the moment. You KNOW what has enduring value and what doesn't.

(A wee bit of grandstanding, but that is how I would answer your question: Yes we can make assessments about people here, up to a certain point).
Last edited by Anonymous on Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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David Quinn
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Re: Judging Others

Post by David Quinn »

Shahrazad wrote:Ambitious people don't impress me.
Curt, dismissive, slam down the shutters.
Preserve the disconnection to one's own soul.
Make a virtue out of the fear that dominates.
Call those who do not submit to the fear "greedy".

- Notes from the Waiting Room.
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Carl G
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Re: Judging Others

Post by Carl G »

Alex wrote:
And if the Earth---your platform---is really in your eyes a place of 'ghostly gravediggers', you are perhaps more invested in a false Christian conception than you let on.
Yeah, well...well, you chased away elderwoodxxx.
Good Citizen Carl
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