Love

[jufa]

No one can understand the nature of love becaue no one can understand the nature of the unconditioned Mind. To say this is untrue one has to take the conditions of opposites completely out of their existence because in the human world, love is conditiional to hate.

Never give power to anythng a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Pye]

David: Love: an algorithm designed to undermine intelligence for the greater good of the species.

Designed by whom/what? - nature & evolution? So then, it would not be intelligent to continue the species. In turn, nature/evolution is not intelligent. In fact, it sounds here as if you have intelligence disattached from nature altogether. If it [intelligence] belongs only to people, then people belong in turn to nature, etc. Care to qualify?

David: And let's face it, the primary function of love is simply to get us to breed.

Yes. To mate-with/merge-with/propagate. But people are not the only things loved. We "mate-with"/merge-with/propagate many things within love, including ideas, wisdom, truth, etc. It is just as you say - that which causes us to do this mating/merging/propagation.

David: Love, although real, is essentially narcissistic in nature, as evidenced by many of the comments in this thread - e.g. seeing the other as one's self; wanting to remain with the person who makes you happy inside, etc.

Does this hold for love of truth as well?

David: Love: the product of indifference.

Same query. When you speak of your love of truth, is it, too, the product of indifference?


*edit: some added phrases

[Cahoot]

jufa wrote:
No one can understand the nature of love becaue no one can understand the nature of the unconditioned Mind. To say this is untrue one has to take the conditions of opposites completely out of their existence because in the human world, love is conditiional to hate.

To say that no one can understand the nature of love is a statement of understanding ... about the true nature of love.

Such a statement claims sufficient conceptual understanding to assign at least one quality to the true nature of love ... that no one can understand it.

[Pam Seeback]

No one can understand the nature of love because no one can understand the nature of the unconditioned Mind. To say this is untrue one has to take the conditions of opposites completely out of their existence because in the human world, love is conditional to hate.

This is why it is necessary to cease believing that one "is only human" so as to expand beyond the condition of the opposites. To become obedient to cease thinking of love/hate, good/evil, beauty/ugliness, high/low ... any and all conditions that are extensions of the one condition of the separate self-sense.

What is revealed when one becomes obedient to cease thinking of themselves as conditioned to the opposites is not the love/hate of feeling, but rather, the unconditioned expansion of Self's Infinity of Thought. This expansion is not love as the feeling man understands love to be, but being that it fills, surrounds and supports the "I" as it is being purged of its dualities/conditions, it could be said to be the living metaphor of Perfect or Pure Love.

[Cahoot]

It goes without saying that one is only human, though one’s definition of human may be inaccurate.

Illusions don’t define humanness, they only obscure awareness of what it means to be only human.

Though, humans can and often do have illusions. They also have fake boobs, boob reductions, knee implants, hip implants, false teeth, capped teeth, hair weaves, fake nails, hormone injections that alter body chemistry, organ transplants, tattoos, butt implants, chest implants, calf implants, penile implants, cheek implants, chin implants, nose reductions, bones replaced by titanium rods, amputations, prosthetic limbs, liposuction, botex injections, collagen injections, not too many penis reductions unless part of a sex change procedure and then it’s a penectomy.

Lots of planting and pruning going on.

However, none of these define humanness. Cultivating illusions and body implants are activities that occur within relative existence.

[IJesusChrist]

Love is like that of drunkeness, that is why it is said they are "drunk with love".

You lose inhibitions that you'd have to that of a friend, a stranger, and you say what you feel. You don't expect, you know the other person will respond in a way meaningful to you.

I think love only happens when both reach this uninhibited state at around the same time, and usually within a few days - weeks of their first impression upon one another.

Love is nothing more then the mind relaxing it's emotional defenses. However matured 'love' if there is such a thing is just the immense amount of connections of neural networks you have made with the idea of the opposite party member. The trust, and the memories run deep, so if they start to be broken - as with all memories - immense sadness and anger can arise.

[Kunga]

Love is a chemical imbalance....to much Gold in the Heart.

[Gurrb]

we love to hate and hate to love.

[Kunga]

we love to hate and hate to love.

sounds psychotic

[Carmel]

"This love is silent."

T.S. Eliot

[Kunga]

The only abnormality is the incapacity to love.

~Anais Nin

[David Quinn]

David: Love: an algorithm designed to undermine intelligence for the greater good of the species.

Designed by whom/what? - nature & evolution? So then, it would not be intelligent to continue the species. In turn, nature/evolution is not intelligent. In fact, it sounds here as if you have intelligence disattached from nature altogether. If it [intelligence] belongs only to people, then people belong in turn to nature, etc. Care to qualify?

It is true that Nature has no intelligence at all, at least not in the normal sense of the word. It is too pure for intelligence.

So it wouldn't be too misleading to say that it is infinitely dumb. It's only movement is blind cause and effect. But of course this blind movement is capable of creating everything that we experience and know. So it is a special kind of dumbness.

Given all this, Nature can have no opinion of whether our species should continue to exist or not. Being infinitely dumb, it is entirely oblivious to the issue.

My point above was that our species has evolved in a way that required people to be fairly intelligent in their behaviour, but not too intelligent. In other words, intelligent enough to get on with the practical business of organizing the species' continued survival into the future, but not so intelligent that people become focused on questioning everything and reaching for seemingly impractical goals, such as becoming truthful.

And this is where women have had a large role to play. Their physical beauty and emotional charms serve to exert a powerful hold over the male mind, so much so that it literally shapes his value-system and the expression of his intelligence. In effect, she tames his wildness and directs his energies into serving the "common good". That way, our species has been able to remain adaptable enough to survive the changing conditions over the millenia, but not so adaptable that it risked tearing itself apart.

Quite an ingenious trick, on the part of evolution. Not that it knows anything about it, of course ....

David: And let's face it, the primary function of love is simply to get us to breed.

Yes. To mate-with/merge-with/propagate. But people are not the only things loved. We "mate-with"/merge-with/propagate many things within love, including ideas, wisdom, truth, etc. It is just as you say - that which causes us to do this mating/merging/propagation.

Each of these loves have different consequences. A love of truth triggers a vastly different set of consequences than does, say, a love of football or a love of intimacy.

David: Love, although real, is essentially narcissistic in nature, as evidenced by many of the comments in this thread - e.g. seeing the other as one's self; wanting to remain with the person who makes you happy inside, etc.

Does this hold for love of truth as well?

In the early stages, yes. That is, before one is conscious enough of the absurdities involved in seeking one's self or one's happiness.

-

[David Quinn]

The only abnormality is the incapacity to love.

~Anais Nin

And that abnormality is called Heaven.

-

[mensa-maniac]

Observing logically:

- Love can be a condition that contributes to the manifestation of a zombie.

- Drugs, alcohol, food, anger, aversion, fear, nationalism, etc., are other conditions that can contribute to that manifestation.

- However, since any one of these conditions can contribute to manifestations other than zombie-ism, then none of these conditions can be named as a definitive cause of that manifestation.

- One must look deeper for that.

One of my favourite passages from Soren Kierkegaard's piece called The Banquet concerns this subject:

Mensa says: I read quite a fair portion of The Banquet and I love how Soren Kierkegaard expresses himself so eloquently, purely intellectual. I will be continuiing the read! And then I'll give insight into what I see of Soren Kierkegaard.

As I have said, it is through woman that ideality is born into the world and -- what were man without her! There is many a man who has become a genius through a woman, many a one a hero, many a one a poet, many a one even a saint; but he did not become a genius through the woman he married, for through her he only became a privy councillor; he did not become a hero through the woman he married, for through her he only became a general; he did not become a poet through the woman he married, for through her he only became a father; he did not become a saint through the woman he married, for he did not marry, and would have married but one -- the one whom he did not marry; just as the others became a genius, became a hero, became a poet through the help of the woman they did not marry. If woman's ideality were in itself inspiring, why, then the inspiring woman would be the one to whom a man is united for life. But life tells a different story. It is only by a negative relation to her that man is rendered productive in his ideal endeavors.

So yes, it is possible to escape the trap of zombiness and even be inspired to greater things through the experience of love, but only if you don't let it go too far and allow it to become a domestic prison. But it has to be said, this is a very rare occurrance and contains enormous risks.

I'd recommend The Banquet to anyone who has an interest in understanding the nature of love. It is most amusing, and very profound as well.

-

Mensa says: Yes, The Banquet is an awesome read! Thanks for sharing Soren Kierkegaard

[Kunga]

The only abnormality is the incapacity to love.

~Anais Nin

And that abnormality is called Heaven.

-

You think it's heavenly to be devoid of love ? How odd...seems to me that Heaven would be synonymous with love
Hell would be the opposite of love....hatred.

The zombie is incapable of love or hate....an automaton...devoid of feelings.

(Just as a side note...one of the reasons aliens want to mate with us humans is to bring back some emotions that have been bred out of them)

so...you heart is like a rock ? You don't even feel love for a delicious pomegranate ?

As i read The Banquet i got stuffed before i could finish it ..... rich food is better consumed in small quanitites.


One can also be attached to non-attachment.

[Kunga]

and now for your reading pleasure....i will shut up.

http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/The_ ... f_Huang-po

David...you are right... _/\_

[jupiviv]

My point above was that our species has evolved in a way that required people to be fairly intelligent in their behaviour, but not too intelligent. In other words, intelligent enough to get on with the practical business of organizing the species' continued survival into the future, but not so intelligent that people become focused on questioning everything and reaching for seemingly impractical goals, such as becoming truthful.

That's not true. The vast majority of people(the "herd") are not conscious enough even to get on with practical matters. My computer is more intelligent than me, but it can't get on with practical matters at all. Throughout history, only a few men with some amount of genius in them have contributed to the progress of mankind. The greatest geniuses could be said to have redeemed all of mankind and the rest of the universe just by understanding reality.

In the present, there are almost no great men, and the idea of progress is lost. The future seems pretty dim for the species as a whole.

[Cahoot]

Kunga wrote:
“One can also be attached to non-attachment.”

Kungadin, you do highlight a cogent point, that attachment to renunciation can become an end in itself. However, attachment is a source of illusion, thus attachment to non-attachment, though practiced, is an obscuration to awareness of reality.

*

Viewed logically:

- In relative existence, which is existence in which all things change, one exists in relationship.

- To exist in relationship with anything, whether it be a person, or another object of perception, or even thoughts, is duality.

- Love for anything exists in relationship, in duality.

- When the spontaneous, self-arising motivating force for action is the happiness of the other, or others, then one is acting from a premise, or basis, of love.

- When perceptions are clear of the egos’ demands for attention (fear, anger, aversion, reciprocation of love, and so on), what provides happiness for oneself, and the other?

- Although there are short term sources of happiness that stoke egos and feed illusions, the enduring source of happiness is truth.

- Thus truth, being the enduring source of happiness, is also the enduring expression of love.

(Though many women, and merchants, will tell you it’s diamonds.)

- Which leads to the question: What is truth?

[David Quinn]

The only abnormality is the incapacity to love.

~Anais Nin

And that abnormality is called Heaven.

You think it's heavenly to be devoid of love ? How odd...seems to me that Heaven would be synonymous with love
Hell would be the opposite of love....hatred.

As a good Buddhist, you should know that love and hate give rise to each other in the never-ending cycle of Samsara. Don't they teach that sort of thing anymore?

The zombie is incapable of love or hate....an automaton...devoid of feelings.

A zombie is also incapable of intelligence, understanding, wisdom, bodhicitta, etc.

so...you heart is like a rock ?

When beating truly, it is like Nature itself.

One can also be attached to non-attachment.

The aim should be to become so attached to the goal of non-attachment that even that attachment falls away, after everything else has fallen away.

-

[Kunga]

In relative existence,

Yes but isn't that dividing relative/ultimate ???

They say Samsara & Nirvana are the same .

Otherwise ...there's duality again.


In Tantra Emotions are used as a path .

What is truth?

Then the opposite of truth is non-truth (LIE)

Even TRUTH is a conceputal duality then.

[Kunga]

As a good Buddhist, you should know that love and hate give rise to each other in the never-ending cycle of Samsara. Don't they teach that sort of thing anymore?

i would hardly consider myself a good Buddhist...i'm a student.

Yes love & hate give rise to each other...Samsara and Nirvana ...another duality.

[David Quinn]

As a good Buddhist, you should know that love and hate give rise to each other in the never-ending cycle of Samsara. Don't they teach that sort of thing anymore?

i would hardly consider myself a good Buddhist...i'm a student.

Yes love & hate give rise to each other...Samsara and Nirvana ...another duality.

Which dissolves in enlightenment ......

-

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I was in love in 6th grade.

Yup, I don't think I will ever feel that again -

but of course if I changed that sentence to "I could feel love again" I'm sure it would happen.

It isn't necessary to think that you could fall in love again for it to happen. Since my early 20's I believed that I'd outgrown the ability to fall in love, yet it happened a few times after that - each time totally unexpectedly.

Generally speaking, romantic love is a chemical imbalance in the brain, and believing to love someone forever is just plain foolish because we live for such a short finite period of time. The thoughts of romantic love are delusional, and that is why they are so powerful. They make the ego feel so charged with irrational emotions.

when couples say things like that, like "I will love you, and only you forever, it appeals to the ego's desire for lasting security, which you can only find in the absolute truth, romanticism can and will never give anyone that. It is a tragic dishonest joke in that regard.

obsessive romantic love is the the rejection of god basically. similar to taking drugs or eating big macs every day, no difference.

Ryan, I agree with almost all that you say here, but I believe that the concept of loving someoen forever merely takes on a poetic license, for most people. They know they won't be wallowing in passion every moment throughout infinity, but those who are honest with their intention believe that they can maintain some form of love - if not romantic love - for this person for the rest of their lives. Sometimes it may be the sort of love one may have for a sibling, parent, child, or more distant relative, or even down to just the general love of all humans that some religions and many new-agers preach, but it's still love, and therefore qualifies.

i would hardly consider myself a good Buddhist...i'm a student.

Do you just study Buddhism, or are you a practitioner? Where's the line? Where are the lines?

I'd say that you are a better Buddhist than Richard Gere.

[Cahoot]

But Richard Gere is clean shaven. lol

*

Howdy Kunga,

Duality divides truth into truth/lie.

Non-dual truth is thus a reference to indivisible truth. Truth without a countering non-truth.

[Kunga]

Do you just study Buddhism, or are you a practitioner? Where's the line? Where are the lines?

i study Buddhism, and i'm a lousy practitioner...i rarely meditate, i get angry a lot, i am partial (partiality)...i kill bugs occasionally (i feel guilt tho)...so although i love/respect Buddhism as a religion/philosophy, it is very hard to practice perfectly . i will not let go of myself...i love to be me...free free free !!! i have a teacher...but he probebly thinks i'm nuts....but he doesn't teach anymore (formally). He's more like a friend/family member . i ask him questions as they arise, and he clarifies many things i don't totally comprehend....like tonight he called me..and i asked about Samsara and Nirvana (because of this thread)....he explained how different colored drops of water are put together..and you can't differentiate the drops of color after they mix into the water...something like that....also i think how David explained it (as an Enlightened being) there is no distinction. so i imagine Enlightened people have to be careful ...and appear "normal" and act "normal" otherwise they could freak people out. i can't imagine feeling/tasteing no difference between eatting shit or fresh food.....and i don't think i'd like to even get to that point....lol