QRS delusion

[Dan Rowden]

Well, I think you've answered the question of whether you want to have fun or be true.

[Shahrazad]

Why is having fun such a terrible thing?

[Dan Rowden]

Who said it was "terrible"? Whether it is compatible with being true or not would depend on what you mean by "fun".

[1otherS]

Dan, I can't twist your arm but...do you agree with my previous post in this thread?

[baulz owt]

Dan, why won't you understand that, having already accessed Truth (total [temporary] death of and subsequent cognizance of the ego), one have to insert one's own values? Yes, Truth is your value. I don't really see how much farther you can push it. I keep my delusional values to a minimum, so as to be able to see the Truth. Some delusional values I base my action on are: the world exists and people are fundamentally the same and therefore acting in accordance and alignment with nature's values (compassion, freedom, ebb and flow, etc.). It isn't even possible to survive without an ego attachment.

[1otherS]

It isn't even possible to survive without an ego attachment.

Imagine a world where people didn't have a sex-drive...Humanity would be more primitive WITHOUT it.

Sure, sexuality causes so much tragedy but just imagine a world COMPLETELY WITHOUT it.

Nothing would ever get done. Humanity would no longer exist.

[Sapius]

Dan: The question is, do you want to have fun or do you want to be true?

Shahrazad: Why is having fun such a terrible thing?

I don’t think so. Even being true could bring about the most fun of all.
Isn’t it hilariously funny that except a few, none see the truth?

I think Dan could be having the most fun, far more than what anything else could bring about :D

[baulz owt]

Maybe I am thinking too personally here. I started the journey of knowledge after having become the exact opposite of a healthy individual. I had a negative attitude about everything and deemed myself an outcast and unlovable (I've gone through a shitload in my life. Many 'rock bottoms'.) A couple of years ago, I got fed up and was determined to find fulfillment at all costs, which to me at the time was to be a brilliant artist and be superior to my peers to spite them (and have the adoration of all the pretty girls). Now that I have my own truths about my self and am capable and achieving anything I want (through my autotheism and positive thinking), I see the paradox of seeing things clearly (minimal ego involvement) and lacking that drive that helped me find a more realistic consciousness in the first place. So, I've taken up a more yogic religion and am really enjoying being flexible with my environment and being a healthy, compassionate individual. This works for me. I am at the top of my journalism class, etc which is what I really wanted in the first place. Upon finding that my desire to be superior was an illusion, it really didn't deter me because I understand this is how nature works. Perhaps Dan just set out to become "Truth" or whatever, it was his initial motivation.

[Unidian]

Interesting.

[baulz owt]

Interesting because:
a. my writing reflects nothing of a competent journalist?
b. nobody could really give a shit about my post?
c. none of the above

[Dan Rowden]

Dan, why won't you understand that, having already accessed Truth (total [temporary] death of and subsequent cognizance of the ego), one have to insert one's own values?

One doesn't have to insert values subsequent to ego death. The values one has immediately prior to that event essentially carry on. You may get something out of this short dialogue.

Yes, Truth is your value. I don't really see how much farther you can push it.

On a personal level of attainment, nowhere. That's pretty obvious if one has it. However, one has goals beyond that personal attainment, such as the propagation and survival of wisdom, which is why one might engage these discussions, for instance.

I keep my delusional values to a minimum, so as to be able to see the Truth.

That sounds great in principle, but by what mechanism do you distinguish between those things?

Some delusional values I base my action on are: the world exists and people are fundamentally the same and therefore acting in accordance and alignment with nature's values (compassion, freedom, ebb and flow, etc.).

People are unconscious herd animals. What has that got to do with an individual being true? I don't really get you point there.

It isn't even possible to survive without an ego attachment.

You know this how?

[Dan Rowden]

Maybe I am thinking too personally here. I started the journey of knowledge after having become the exact opposite of a healthy individual. I had a negative attitude about everything and deemed myself an outcast and unlovable (I've gone through a shitload in my life. Many 'rock bottoms'.) A couple of years ago, I got fed up and was determined to find fulfillment at all costs, which to me at the time was to be a brilliant artist and be superior to my peers to spite them (and have the adoration of all the pretty girls). Now that I have my own truths about my self and am capable and achieving anything I want (through my autotheism and positive thinking), I see the paradox of seeing things clearly (minimal ego involvement) and lacking that drive that helped me find a more realistic consciousness in the first place. So, I've taken up a more yogic religion and am really enjoying being flexible with my environment and being a healthy, compassionate individual. This works for me. I am at the top of my journalism class, etc which is what I really wanted in the first place. Upon finding that my desire to be superior was an illusion, it really didn't deter me because I understand this is how nature works. Perhaps Dan just set out to become "Truth" or whatever, it was his initial motivation.

Basically your goal is to become powerful and gain happiness through power. That's all well and good, but it has nothing whatever to do with truth. I hope you become a real journalist and not one of the tribe of corporate hacks we now have parading as journalists.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

It isn't even possible to survive without an ego attachment.

Survival could be possible via compliance with a dominant meme of survival, which wouldn't involve thinking, but would most completely fit the criteria. Another (and better) option would be survival for a greater purpose, but not having the attachment between the individual and the greater purpose to the point of getting emotional over whether or not the purpose is really greater, or if it is achieved. This leaves room for debate on whether that qualifies as an ego attachment, but only to the point of differentiating "getting emotional" from having feelings such as feeling inspired (and even that is on a debatable gradient).

Although there is a link between nihilism and anhedonia or even depression in those who have an ego attachment, but the degree to which one can accept the paradigm of nihilism without adverse effect on personal functionality is a good indicator of one's progress toward enlightenment.

[baulz owt]

Thank you gurus for bearing with me. On this site, I appreciate the posters' ability to challenge everything in the name of truth so that I am taking fewer delusions for granted.

That sounds great in principle, but by what mechanism do you distinguish between those things?

After peeling the layers of ego back and feeling utter emptiness, I realized that I need some ego attachment. I try to keep it to a minimum with my thin, transparent ego layer--transparent in that I am able to switch back to truth-based thought by seeing through my ego motives.

People are unconscious herd animals. What has that got to do with an individual being true? I don't really get you point there.

People are unconscious herd animals. What I mean by the nature stuff is a variation of Nietzsche's thought. I realize what actions promote well-being of myself and of the unconscious animals. Compassion, for instance, makes me feel good (I'm aware of that ego attachment, even during the action) and it promotes well-being of others (that I presume to exist) in turn improving my world.

Could you explain to me how a human can survive without any ego? How does the self not exist? Without buying into the philosophy that everything is one consciousness?

[Jamesh]

From Dan's Genius News excerpt

David Quinn: Not at all. A person grows into a sage by virtue of the fact that he abandons a self-centered existence in favour of a truth-centered one. He comes to value truth wholeheartedly, without a sherrick of selfishness to stand in the way. As such, he can no more promote the self than an apple tree can start growing oranges.

Rubbish. "the self" just becomes redefined or reclassified as "the bringer of truth, the sage", so in promoting truth one promotes the self. Were the QRS not able to promote their “truth self” they would be nihilistic, and perhaps give up existence or turn to pursuits of pleasure.

He comes to value truth wholeheartedly, without a sherrick of selfishness to stand in the way.

As if!

Were this the case then I would imagine that David would be out there attempting to bring about the silencing of the most untruthful people – the religious, media and pollies - in order for society to have greater opportunity for the minimisation of falseness. Rather than that they promote truth only to the degree of the selfishness of personal safety.

I don’t think this is simply a strategic decision, namely to increase the chances of promote truth over the long term, rather than the risky short term, by not being too obnoxious to those in power. An enlightened person should have sufficient focus and strategic ability to implement strategies that would lower the risk of becoming a martyr. Becoming a martyr would be stupid. I think Jung said it right when he said "one could almost say that if all the world's traditions were cut off at a single blow, the whole mythology and the whole history of religion would start all over again with the next generation". I think humanity has to physically evolve towards greater levels of truth - and that this will only be bought about by hardship (note - the present day high levels of mental freedom bought about by technology also often causes hardship - the ego is a mental program that endlessly loops to avoid lasting satisfaction with one's circumstances).

This is not to say that I don’t think of the QRS as rather worthy persons, I just feel they still don’t acknowledge this ego façade to a sufficient degree – they choose to ignore it.

[Kevin Solway]

Were this the case then I would imagine that David would be out there attempting to bring about the silencing of the most untruthful people – the religious, media and pollies - in order for society to have greater opportunity for the minimisation of falseness.

Don't you count our radio programs, podcasts, youtube channels, websites, etc?

[Sapius]

David: A person grows into a sage by virtue of the fact that he abandons a self-centered existence in favour of a truth-centered one.

I think it is practically impossible not to operate self-centeredly, for the nature of consciousness is necessarily self-centered; I against all that is not I; and that is one or the truths I would say. And although traces of selfishness cannot be eradicated if one is to operate in and off consciousness, but I can agree that a great degree of selflessness can be achieved, but not altruism.

If there were no self-satisfying aspect to propagating truth, or say indulging in anything at all, consciousness wouldn’t be consciousness.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Could you explain to me how a human can survive without any ego?

Uh-uh. 12 posts above, you made the assertion that it isn't even possible to survive without an ego attachment. You never defended your position. Would you please make an attempt at thinking this through before asking to have everything spoon-fed to you? You could start by defending your position, or at least defining how you perceive the ego.

Thank you.

[1otherS]

Could you explain to me how a human can survive without any ego?

Uh-uh. 12 posts above, you made the assertion that it isn't even possible to survive without an ego attachment. You never defended your position. Would you please make an attempt at thinking this through before asking to have everything spoon-fed to you? You could start by defending your position, or at least defining how you perceive the ego.

Thank you.

I'm sure Baulz can defend himself, but I made a short post in here about the sex-drive(something the QRS would call an ego-attachment) being essential to our survival...What do you think of this?

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

If sex-drive were still essential to our survival, there would not be any fertility clinics. I get the impression that for an overwhelming majority of couples trying to conceive despite fertility problems, sex becomes a chore. Gay and lesbian couples who want to have children do not conceive out of the result of a sex drive, yet they get biological children. With the advances in birth control, children are far less often the result of sex drive. We know roughly how to make babies, so if the desired result is procreation, we have the "recipe" on how to produce that result. Sex drive doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

[Jason]

If sex-drive were still essential to our survival, there would not be any fertility clinics. I get the impression that for an overwhelming majority of couples trying to conceive despite fertility problems, sex becomes a chore.

Infertility is not the same thing as lack of sex-drive.

[Animus]

"The QRS and their flock regularly write about their outcast status-constantly glorifying it as well...as if they were heroic martyrs.
"

Yea, I think I am. I just possibly passed up a huge promotion at work and put my job security in question because I discovered my employer was doing something illegal (to exploit labour). I called them out on it and now I am being subtely threatened by the HR dept. I knew ahead of time what the inevitable outcome of my actions would be... because I've been down this road a few times before.

All around me people opine they couldn't do what I'm doing becuase they have too many attachments. As a result they allow the company to exploit them and disobey the standards of the Employment Standards Act. This further plunges our society into the hands of the ego-centric capitalist, while the slavish masses succumb to their desire for job security and wealth.

I have those same goals of job security and wealth and I pursue them with a lot of effort, but if my rights as a Canadian Citizen or my principles of living a true human life stand in the way, my job security and wealth can go fuck itself.

[Blair]

Lot's of kids like to scrawl "i wuz here and now im gone, i left this note to pass it on" in public toilets etc

I daresay thats what the original poster is doing in his own way, pissing his little territory.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

If sex-drive were still essential to our survival, there would not be any fertility clinics. I get the impression that for an overwhelming majority of couples trying to conceive despite fertility problems, sex becomes a chore.

Infertility is not the same thing as lack of sex-drive.

I know that, and you are not understanding what I meant. Let me try again.

Sex-drive is the strong desire to have sex. A desire to procreate is a desire to have children. Unprotected sex can lead to children, but a desire for one does not equate with a desire for the other. There are many who desire sex, but do not want to have a child every time they have sex. There are also people who want to have a child, and are willing to have sex even when they are not in the mood for sex - in order to maximize their chances of having a child.

A current example of people who are willing to have sex even when they are not in the mood for sex is some of the people who go to fertility clinics. When all that is required to increase a couple's chance of having a child is to put the woman on fertility drugs and time the sexual intercourse for her most fertile time, this tends to remove the sexual desire aspect of the act of sexual intercourse. When the woman's mind is occupied with the calendar, her temperature, viscosity of her vaginal secretions, etc., rather than sexual desire for her mate, she is not likely to really be in the mood for sex. The limited time frame for when the male must deposit the sperm in order to maximize effectiveness increases psychological pressure on the male, frequently replacing sexual desire with performance anxiety. This is one example of procreation being possible without sex drive.

An even better example of how fertility clinics remain in operation despite a lack of sex drive as an ingredient in the making of a child is when sperm is mixed with eggs in a petri dish, and medically implanted in a uterus. Sex drive is notably absent during this entire medical procedure. Nevertheless, procreation occurs.

[David Quinn]

"The QRS and their flock regularly write about their outcast status-constantly glorifying it as well...as if they were heroic martyrs.
"

Yea, I think I am. I just possibly passed up a huge promotion at work and put my job security in question because I discovered my employer was doing something illegal (to exploit labour). I called them out on it and now I am being subtely threatened by the HR dept. I knew ahead of time what the inevitable outcome of my actions would be... because I've been down this road a few times before.

All around me people opine they couldn't do what I'm doing becuase they have too many attachments. As a result they allow the company to exploit them and disobey the standards of the Employment Standards Act. This further plunges our society into the hands of the ego-centric capitalist, while the slavish masses succumb to their desire for job security and wealth.

I have those same goals of job security and wealth and I pursue them with a lot of effort, but if my rights as a Canadian Citizen or my principles of living a true human life stand in the way, my job security and wealth can go fuck itself.

Good on you for standing up to it. Whistleblowers are a unique breed and rarely appreciated - at least not until long after the affair and their lives have already been destroyed. Let us know how you go.

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