The Word Of Truth

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

elderwoodxxx wrote: Death is fear and anger and negativity.. death is allowing your doubts to rule your mind. Death dies.. To Live is to come awake... are you awake? Or do you sculk in your own shadows?
But it's life which is so often full of fear, anger and negativity - but for most it's living under the surface, contained one way or another, often hidden under the most stunning packaging. And for most it might be a good idea to leave it like that, the shadowy badly-treated mirage monster - when liberated - might be just too strong.

It's at those moments, when you witness such event, it gets all too clear how fragile our existence is, blown away by powers not even recognized, not even known from which direction it came and hit!

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elderwoodxxx
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:But it's life which is so often full of fear, anger and negativity - but for most it's living under the surface, contained one way or another, often hidden under the most stunning packaging. And for most it might be a good idea to leave it like that, the shadowy badly-treated mirage monster - when liberated - might be just too strong.
Indeed my life was full of fear, sorrow and negativity until i awoke and understood that fear does not actually exist.. and the only thing one should fear is fear itself..when liberated and you see fear and negativity for what it is.. a man made construct you realise that others are only then fearing themselves.. their own demons.. their own doubts about who they are and you see how easy they are driven by fear.. how it rules so called life.. chaos within chaos fueling yet more of the same..

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Iolaus
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Iolaus »

Amanda, didn't the nuns rap you on the knuckles for writing like that?

It would be easier if you knew when to make a comma or a period.
Truth is a pathless land.
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elderwoodxxx
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

Iolaus wrote:Amanda, didn't the nuns rap you on the knuckles for writing like that?

It would be easier if you knew when to make a comma or a period.
What nuns? ;-) Ok I will write with only one full stop and proper sentence construction if that be your desire. After all we do aim to please others. :-)
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brokenhead
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by brokenhead »

elderwoodxxx wrote:
Iolaus wrote:Amanda, didn't the nuns rap you on the knuckles for writing like that?

It would be easier if you knew when to make a comma or a period.
What nuns? ;-) Ok I will write with only one full stop and proper sentence construction if that be your desire. After all we do aim to please others. :-)
And I see you used that capital "I" thingy, too. Much better.
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elderwoodxxx
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

brokenhead wrote:And I see you used that capital "I" thingy, too. Much better.
Oh please do so forgive me, one did not realise that this forum was a grammatical learning experience. Well I have been corrected now. Indeed, one will write with most proficiently executed letters and structure. For of course we all must set an example.

Amandaxxx

I do not believe that 'thingy' resides within the concise Oxford dictionary however ;-)
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brokenhead
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by brokenhead »

elderwoodxxx wrote:
brokenhead wrote:And I see you used that capital "I" thingy, too. Much better.
Oh please do so forgive me, one did not realise that this forum was a grammatical learning experience. Well I have been corrected now. Indeed, one will write with most proficiently executed letters and structure. For of course we all must set an example.

Amandaxxx

I do not believe that 'thingy' resides within the concise Oxford dictionary however ;-)
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Alex Jacob »

But 'Where the devil are my slippers?'
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Dan Rowden
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Dan Rowden »

The way you write reflects the way your brain functions. If your sentence and grammar structure is loose or lacking coherence, then so is your mind. If you write in wafty, poetic and emotional forms, then that's how your mind is working. This is why I can reject Amanda and Alex, respectively, as persons I wish to engage - I can do that just by looking at the way they write.
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elderwoodxxx
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

Dan Rowden wrote:The way you write reflects the way your brain functions. If your sentence and grammar structure is loose or lacking coherence, then so is your mind. If you write in wafty, poetic and emotional forms, then that's how your mind is working. This is why I can reject Amanda and Alex, respectively, as persons I wish to engage - I can do that just by looking at the way they write.
I was taking the PISS!!!
In no way do I lack coherence and in no way do I judge. You obviously do. If you cannot and will not understand then of course you will not 'want' to even attempt to talk with me.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Dan Rowden »

Yes, that's the whole problem - you don't judge. The absence of judgement (i.e. discernment) is mindlessness. You need to start judging a whole lot more. Try it, it won't hurt, I promise.
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4131&p=79614#p79614

This thread may or may not be of interest to you. I judge the complacency of the minds lack of ability to see beyond the subjective nature of itself, and began this topic by questioning the minds ability as infinite.

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Dan Rowden
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Dan Rowden »

I've read it. I don't think I could bring myself to do so again. Alex, oddly enough, managed to sum things up:
What you fail to see is that you have arrived on a list where, generally speaking, the people want precision and accurate use of language, and in that context you have literally unleashed whole waves of imprecise, vague, puffy, billowy torrents of words.
You may, in the end, be saying something I may at least partially agree with, but it's frankly impossible to tell. The distinction you make between mind and consciousness seems unnecessary for the purpose of that thread and the point you seemed to be making. The mind (or an aspect thereof) is capable of seeing the nature of the ego and its false constructs. It may help if I say that I see the ego-mind as the unconscious and the reasoning-mind as the conscious. The latter can see the former and also the nature of all things, which is how it expresses its own "infinite" nature.

Most people live their lives in an unconscious state because they've never been introduced to an alternative. I don't think astrology and New Age waffle is that alternative.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Alex Jacob »

Dan, my grandmother's favorite hen has more discernment and native intelligence than you. I don't know if I'd trust you to know where to dig a hole to take a shit in.

My world is not solely comprised of the narrow confine you have established for yourself. I don't have any problem at all moving in your hyper-rational enforced world where you violently separate yourself from huge parts of your own self, and not only that but life itself. Even if I say this to you, it doesn't even go over your head, there is just no place in you where the idea can sound on. You, David and Kevin, if the truth were to be told, are sort of functional schizophrenics, and (of course!) this is why you attract and must deal with so many people with real mental illness. And one very important point that you miss is that the cure for mental illness---especially the modernist brand of it---is NOT through taking up shelter and barricading yourself in one's mental confines. You have to work with the whole self, and you have no knowledge and less experience of what this is. That is primarily I submit why you cannot understand my orientation or my activities here. But if this is pointed out to you, all you can hear is a dissent against 'reason', and the advocating for the voluptuousness of life, sensual appetites or (Heaven forbid!) poesy!

To get well, to be well, in our modernity is no easy feat, and with you one is forced to repeat over and over and over again that y'all just don't give evidence of it. There is something distorted and yes, ugly, in what you think, in the productions of your thought. (This is a very important point).

The reason why I mention wellness (not a word or an idea you-plural ever talk about) is because my take on 'the elephant in the room' when it comes to your creation (this forum), is that all is not so well on the home front. The distortions that you-plural have unwittingly set in motion, continue in motion, and exacerbate in the most tragi-comic ways, right under your 'psychological noses'. Yet you just do not see it. You can't see it. In that sense, and in your own special and unique ways, there is something of the narcissist's defense patterns that operate in you-plural. Micky Eel comes to help you to see this, that slithering, slimy and rather sad creature from the deep. Yet you will fight against all comers until the day you leave this mortal coil, and it will be done as an essential nincompoop, but you will never see what an outsider sees, and what others who are here now see.

Any of this getting through, my boy? ;-)
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Dan Rowden
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Dan Rowden »

Alex Jacob wrote:Dan, my grandmother's favorite hen has more discernment and native intelligence than you. I don't know if I'd trust you to know where to dig a hole to take a shit in.
Wow, a fully enlightened chook -who'd have thought it possible!
My world is not solely comprised of the narrow confine you have established for yourself. I don't have any problem at all moving in your hyper-rational enforced world where you violently separate yourself from huge parts of your own self, and not only that but life itself.
Alex, this is such idiocy. You keep repeating this ridiculous assertion, apparently thinking it means something. What you deem meaningful aspects of life I deem delusional nonsense. When I rid myself of that which I deem to be such, I am left with what I regard as an authentic life. Your sentimental protests don't constitute an argument against my judgements about what is and is not delusional and nonsensical. Why can't you get your head around that simple, remedial fact? Honestly, it's not like it's difficult.
Even if I say this to you, it doesn't even go over your head, there is just no place in you where the idea can sound on.
You're not actually saying anything meaningful! That's why it can't find a place to rest.
You, David and Kevin, if the truth were to be told, are sort of functional schizophrenics, and (of course!) this is why you attract and must deal with so many people with real mental illness.
Ah, see, I knew it'd come to this - in the absence of anything resembling an argument, there's nothing left but this, is there, Alex? You know this is deeply pathetic, right?
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Alex Jacob »

Let me to help you Dan. For God's sake let me help you.
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Dan Rowden »

I am compelled to say: fuck off, moron. With the greatest of respect, naturally :)
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by divine focus »

Dan Rowden wrote:Yes, that's the whole problem - you don't judge. The absence of judgement (i.e. discernment) is mindlessness. You need to start judging a whole lot more. Try it, it won't hurt, I promise.
There is a difference between judgment and discernment. They are not the same. The absence of judgment is not mindlessness, but objectivity. Judgment involves an absolutist determination of True and False, as if False were as real as True. False does not actually exist on its own, as there is only Truth. Truth may be distorted, but it can't be transformed into a second absolute of False. It may lose truth value, but it will never reach zero.

Discernment is a tool developed for determining truth value, and it is essentially non-conceptual.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

divine focus wrote: There is a difference between judgment and discernment. They are not the same.
* throws dictionary *

judgment

a. The mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment: Fatigue may affect a pilot's judgment of distances.
b. The capacity to form an opinion by distinguishing and evaluating: His judgment of fine music is impeccable.
c. The capacity to assess situations or circumstances and draw sound conclusions; good sense:
Divine Focus wrote: Judgment involves an absolutist determination of True and False, as if False were as real as True.
Only when you really scroll down in the dictionary one could perhaps find:

- A misfortune believed to be sent by God as punishment for sin.
- Judgment, The Last Judgment.
- pass judgment to give one's opinion, usually a critical one, on a matter

Which are definitions based on fear, for being exposed. Therefore I'd suggest that anyone making such bad judgments on the word judgment - better examine possible fear-based strategies.
Discernment is a tool developed for determining truth value, and it is essentially non-conceptual
Nonsense, the whole truth-false paradigm finds place in the conceptual space. No-one argues the fact that we have experiences in itself. One argues their meaning only, our responses to them.

The dictionary is really sufficient on discernment here: "the act or process of exhibiting keen insight and good judgment".

This doesn't mean the dictionary is the Word of God but without some good reasons one shouldn't stray too far from it if you want to have a meaningful conversation. And there's no good reason here apart from what appears to be some very fragile, scared ego wish-wash.

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elderwoodxxx
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

divine focus wrote:There is a difference between judgment and discernment. They are not the same. The absence of judgment is not mindlessness, but objectivity. Judgment involves an absolutist determination of True and False, as if False were as real as True. False does not actually exist on its own, as there is only Truth. Truth may be distorted, but it can't be transformed into a second absolute of False. It may lose truth value, but it will never reach zero.
It would depend how others 'discern' the word 'judgement' as is evidential here.

The reason why i say i do not judge is simply the fact that i mean everyone has their own understanding of their own realisations. I recall having another conversation of the same a while ago with some friends, If one equates 'judging' with 'assuming' then it would mean that all I am saying is from my observations upon peoples sentences, one cannot take them in any other way than face value. Remember I know nothing, so what i read, i read without 'judgement', with an open mind, otherwise i would be stereotyping and grouping and casting aspersions on 'how' people perceive, which i do not. If I were to 'judge' then I would be assuming for example that person A, has said something as a derrogatory stereotype, which incidently does happen here quite a lot, giving evidence that others do in fact group their opinions towards another in a judgement. eg, 'New-age crap' Once someone has that in their head it is almost impossible to 'reason' with them logically.

As quoted above, 'The absence of judgment is not mindlessness, but objectivity', is exactly why i do not judge. One has to always be objective if any kind of understanding, upon any issue can be realised. The only judging one should do, is that of themselves, they should question their own reasons for their own assertions, otherwise we go around in 'blind' circles of muck slinging, as evidential also above. The 'blind' leading the 'blind'!


With regard to true or false as quoted above, there is no right or wrong/true or false, in peoples assertions, just different UNDERSTANDING. when we all can understand the issues raised by others, then we can all realise truth for ourselves.

I used the word 'judgement' to Dan, in the context that i knew he would understand, but I am beginning to think he as with many others just simply can not hear me here. This 'genius' site seems to be home to 'muck slingers' and many a 'foolishness'. Has any one a 'mind' that is not 'clouded' that can converse with me and so come to some level or UNDERSTANDING and realisation between at least two people??. If two can understand an issue objectively then consciousness between them has a chance here. As it is many make 'subjective' arguments that cannot hold themselves up as each subjective ideal is as equally valid to the respectve individual who said it in their own way of UNDERSTANDING it. I respect anothers understanding and their worth in thinking it as each is as equally as valid as the next. But, do not lack discernment in understanding this. Are you wise? or do you just 'think' you are.

Does any one hear me??
Amandaxxx

Discernment:
–noun 1. the faculty of discerning; discrimination; acuteness of judgment and understanding.

Judgement:
noun 1. an act or instance of judging.
2. the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, esp. in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgment.

I do not 'judge' another from their own understanding but I do have Judgemnent and thus do not assume.

Judge:
. to form a judgment or opinion of; decide upon critically: You can't judge a book by its cover.

so open the book, or open the others MIND. I am OPEN are you?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Alex Jacob wrote:...David and Kevin, if the truth were to be told, are sort of functional schizophrenics, and (of course!) this is why you attract and must deal with so many people with real mental illness.
Hmm, are you really sure that statement would exclude yourself? And why would that be so?

While your understanding of schizophrenia seems to be confused with SPD, I do wonder if you ever considered to classify yourself as having some kind of Mania. It surely would explain your shamanic journeys, voluminous writing and even your (tongue in cheek) messiah complexes.

At times I rather envision you as a Hannibal Lecter dictating from a straight jacket some kind visitor in the high-security institution, all of his penetrating analysis of the diseased world while still being controlled by his own uncontrollable obsessions, some of it even more sick than the lesser evils he analyzes.
And one very important point that you miss is that the cure for mental illness---especially the modernist brand of it---is NOT through taking up shelter and barricading yourself in one's mental confines. You have to work with the whole self, and you have no knowledge and less experience of what this is. That is primarily I submit why you cannot understand my orientation or my activities here.
The reason for not understanding is simple: you're using the same means as them, that is: communication through message boards. You cannot criticize this as sheltering and barricading by participating and just mention wholes to work with beyond it. It kind of deflates the whole message you think you have. At least they open themselves up using their names and places they live and even travel to speak with others here.

You already lost before you started. Which is not a problem as the reason you are here is something different entirely, I know.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Alex Jacob »

Only the false-Messiahs have Messiah complexes, Discriminating Diebert.

It's true, though, we are all involved in the madness, and the madness is different in each case and yet it all stems from a linking 'hub' as you pointed out. As you know for [deleted] reasons, and [deleted], there will always be level upon level of tongue-in-cheek in what I lovingly offer to the hungry, lonesome dogs who prowl in these minor Hells. Fact is, it is now impossible to get to the bottom of it. This became clear to me after I read Ryan's recent contributions: there is no response possible but an ironic response. You seem to know this as well as anyone.

But I am not at all joking when it comes to the idea of diagnosis in respect to our Founders. According to them, the world is mad. Again, you should know this as well as or better than anyone. This is part-and-parcel of modernity, the clamor of Many Voices, or as it seems to have been expressed by the ISB in The Queen of Love:

"as Pan with the unsane eyes
or with the wild horns
or when I am crowned with the paper crown
or with the crown of thorns".

I don't get your connection between message boards and the doctrine of holing oneself up in a mental and rational enclosure and supposing that is wholeness.

The game of attracting internet followers (boys living at home in their parents basements, come on Diebert!) and getting them to do your bidding, offering psychological medallions as rewards for correct recitation of the Holy Doctrines. Any fool can see this stuff, Diebert. You seem to react dis-favorably to the Warholian youtube links in this context, but you don't seem to be conscious of this sort of electronic Warholian men's-group game played out here. Not that I am knocking it per se. I choose to work within it, at least for now. For me it must be about tremendous fun, and it really is tremendously fun. Ryan seemed to react to the circus element, without realizing he is a star performer. And so are you! So, I come here and I see such a strange little circus, but a boring circus. A ringleader who sees this Diebert can do many things with it.

Are you saying you want me to visit you, Diebert? To go on a handshaking tour?

My point is really simple: I don't think any of you who subscribe to this 'philosophy' and to this over-grandiose idea of the Saving Grace of 'philosophy' really have much idea what you are talking about. Not that it is without merit altogether, of course not! It is the selling of an mere idea-structure as a saving activity that strikes me as ludicrous. And layer upon layer of irony is constructed upon that. There is endless fun in laughing at that.

Forgive me if I laugh in Church, I know it is rude.

I saw a film clip, I think it was on an airplane, of Hannibal Lector feeding a man his own brain after immobilizing him and sawing off the top of his head but he was still alive. At the end of the movie, as HL was escaping, he fed some of the sumptuous dish he'd made with the rest of the man's brain to some inquisitive kid sitting in the next seat...

Where are you going with all this, Diebert?

;-)
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Alex Jacob wrote: I don't get your connection between message boards and the doctrine of holing oneself up in a mental and rational enclosure and supposing that is wholeness.
You wrote to Dan: "That is primarily I submit why you cannot understand my orientation or my activities here. "

On which I inserted myself with the remark that your orientation doesn't do well on the medium. You do know the relation between medium and message, not?
The game of attracting internet followers (boys living at home in their parents basements, come on Diebert!) and getting them to do your bidding, offering psychological medallions as rewards for correct recitation of the Holy Doctrines. Any fool can see this stuff, Diebert.
Not just any fool. People so obsessed with these games of manipulation will see it everywhere thereby confirming their initial view. And it's true, we're always caught in the game of attractions. Once you accept that and get over the knee-jerks, perhaps a serious conversation might follow.
So, I come here and I see such a strange little circus, but a boring circus. A ringleader who sees this Diebert can do many things with it.
But weren't you already looking at everything else in a 'circusy' manner before? Didn't you bring it into the equation? It's just one way to look at the process. It doesn't mean much, it doesn't begin to solve any of the issues at hand.

Anyway, the carnival is over
My point is really simple: I don't think any of you who subscribe to this 'philosophy' and to this over-grandiose idea of the Saving Grace of 'philosophy' really have much idea what you are talking about.
Neither do you give that impression. Which makes you kind of belong here then! But the medium might never reveal how much one really knows about the things said. And even a fool can, as willing mouthpiece for the universe, speak terrifying things even beyond his own knowledge.
Not that it is without merit altogether, of course not! It is the selling of an mere idea-structure as a saving activity that strikes me as ludicrous. And layer upon layer of irony is constructed upon that. There is endless fun in laughing at that.
An idea-structure can mostly save someone from another idea-structure. But nothing more has even been claimed or promised, I hope. The problem I see with many people at this forum is that they think what they are cherishing is not an idea-structure deep down.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by Alex Jacob »

Diebert, you are such a freak!

But anyway, your Dead Can Dance reminded me of Kurt Elling, and then Nat King Cole.

My 'message' does spectacularly in this medium, Diebert! Es-pec-tac-u-lar, hombre! It is you (well, less you than some others here) who do not in fact know where they are and how rich all this can be!

"Not just any fool. People so obsessed with these games of manipulation will see it everywhere thereby confirming their initial view. And it's true, we're always caught in the game of attractions. Once you accept that and get over the knee-jerks, perhaps a serious conversation might follow."

You are deluded, Diebert. One thing is that, despite any limitation because of the deranged psychology of our Local Trend-Setters, we have many, many 'serious conversations', and many people receive serious ideas, and I am sure they deal with those ideas in their lives. Don't forget, that is the end product, and that is your readership. Where y'all get hung up is in thinking it has to be one certain way, and when y'all are left to define that way, your readership wants to go home and put a bullet in their head.

"But the medium might never reveal how much one really knows about the things said. And even a fool can, as willing mouthpiece for the universe, speak terrifying things even beyond his own knowledge."

And...what? In this medium one's influence is invisible. Many times I have received notes from people who never even post who express to me some value received. The readership gets through to you, it lets you know, and even if it doesn't there is a wierd magic in 'writing blind'...to some unknown person out there...someone waiting to hear exactly what you have written. The medium, Diebert, is strangeley conducive to mediumship, and behind every medium is a kind of magic, and a magician, juggling shiney balls.

"An idea-structure can mostly save someone from another idea-structure. But nothing more has even been claimed or promised, I hope. The problem I see with many people at this forum is that they think what they are cherishing is not an idea-structure deep down."

Yeah, until you have 'handled' so many that the theme of a greater game seems to stand behind all of them. Ain't that so, Diebert? So, you stop juggling but the audience stares at you in anticipation. You look back at them. They stare at you, and there is silence. You set down your magic wand and shake your head negatively. You walk away. But what do you sense? It's...it's...desperation! They need you! They need a show. And The Show Must Go On!

Sing it, Diebert! Sing it and mean it!
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Re: The Word Of Truth

Post by elderwoodxxx »

My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies ;-) and the show will always go on... until we figure out the script that we are here to play. Are you a pupet? a puppeteer? or are you going to write the next part of the script? Well surely if you know why you are here you will. 'I am' and 'I am' has always been the way ;-)haha

Amandaxxx
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