There is no logic for existence

[Gurrb]

we will never find the logic, the reason. it's a nonsense search for answers.

we do not cry because we are sad. we cry because we are no longer happy.
we do not mourn because one has died. we mourn because they are no longer living.

[David Quinn]

If anyone over the age of 25 hasn't worked out the logic of existence and understands everything that can ever be known about the nature of reality and where it came from, etc, then it clearly shows they aren't serious. Something inside them is holding them back.

It's terrible to see so many people, particularly young people, submit so easily to the common mythology and sink resignedly into the "nobody can know" mindset. They might as well shoot themselves now and be done with it.

-

[jufa]

If anyone over the age of 25 hasn't worked out the logic of existence and understands everything that can ever be known about the nature of reality and where it came from, etc, then it clearly shows they aren't serious. Something inside them is holding them back.

It's terrible to see so many people, particularly young people, submit so easily to the common mythology and sink resignedly into the "nobody can know" mindset. They might as well shoot themselves now and be done with it.

Haven't seen any logic you have presented for the existence of the universe.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Anders Schlander]

The brain helps us realize the nature of 'Universe', So the universe is a kind of mirror,(the mind) in which the universe comes to know itself.

If you say that the mind creates the universe, you're mistaken, because the mind 'is' also the universe--

[Gurrb]

it's just my opinion. you may believe you understand the logic, but i think it's just another view that you hold higher than others.

[David Quinn]

If anyone over the age of 25 hasn't worked out the logic of existence and understands everything that can ever be known about the nature of reality and where it came from, etc, then it clearly shows they aren't serious. Something inside them is holding them back.

It's terrible to see so many people, particularly young people, submit so easily to the common mythology and sink resignedly into the "nobody can know" mindset. They might as well shoot themselves now and be done with it.

Haven't seen any logic you have presented for the existence of the universe.

By "universe" do you mean the ALL, the totality of all things, or do you mean a subsection of the ALL?

-

[David Quinn]

it's just my opinion. you may believe you understand the logic, but i think it's just another view that you hold higher than others.

Is this just a view that you hold higher than others?

-

[jufa]

David Quinn asked:

By "universe" do you mean the ALL, the totality of all things, or do you mean a subsection of the ALL?

in reply to my statement:

Haven't seen any logic you have presented for the existence of the universe.

Which was prompted by:

If anyone over the age of 25 hasn't worked out the logic of existence and understands everything that can ever be known about the nature of reality and where it came from, etc, then it clearly shows they aren't serious. Something inside them is holding them back.

It's terrible to see so many people, particularly young people, submit so easily to the common mythology and sink resignedly into the "nobody can know" mindset. They might as well shoot themselves now and be done with it. - David Quinn

=================================================

In answering the opening statement here, All is assumptive of conclusion, and I cannot conclude a beginning nor end to infinity based on the following. I cannot define a beginning nor end to myself. Can you? If you can, you will be able to provide me with the exact moment of your conception, and you will be able to state definitively the exact moment when you will die. It is probable, and possible you will die should you place a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger, but it is not definitive so. So, the universe and its subsections, which in the usage I speak of here, means an extension is an extension of the universe, and subsection is a term used when the totality of the universe cannot be defined by defining what the All is of the Allness of that which its emanates from. The subsection deals with effects, but never the primal cause. What that Allness is cannot be defined by human logic, even though human logic emanates from the Allness.

What I have just stated goes directly back to the opening theme of this thread, which is:

There is no logic for existence

Whether it is the universe, subsections of it, the human mind, human logic, and most important, there is no logic for any one to speak of the All, when the All cannot be defined logically or metaphorically.

Never gove power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[David Quinn]

Whether it is the universe, subsections of it, the human mind, human logic, and most important, there is no logic for any one to speak of the All, when the All cannot be defined logically or metaphorically.

I don't know about you, but I have no problem defining the ALL - namely, utterly everything.

It is a vey precise definition.

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

-

[Loki]

Whether it is the universe, subsections of it, the human mind, human logic, and most important, there is no logic for any one to speak of the All, when the All cannot be defined logically or metaphorically.

I don't know about you, but I have no problem defining the ALL - namely, utterly everything.
-

The problem though David is that we don't know if utterly everything equates to something finite, or if it is infinite.

[David Quinn]

It doesn't really matter. When you go into it deeply enough, you find that such concerns fall away.

Think of the ALL as being sizeless. Size is a relative term. Things only become large or small when compared to other things. Since the ALL has nothing else to be compared to, it is entirely without size.

This doesn't mean that it is infinitely small. Nor is it infinitely large. It simply means that we cannot apply such terms to the ALL.

-

[mensa-maniac]

There is no logic for existence

Perhaps, the logic for existence is for humanity to develop from a spirit of hatred and lies to a spirit of love and joy.

But is Peace on Earth possible?

Only if everyone world-wide accepted the God residing within them. Then everyone would strive to be good to one another, and peace would follow. As for those of us who do experience love and joy, the logic for our existence is to share it with others, let the light shine unto them.

The Logic for Existence is to accept the God within you, to accept you are good and believe you are nothing less than good. Once accomplished, the light within you will be acknowledged, and will shine for All to see!

[Loki]

Think of the ALL as being sizeless. Size is a relative term. Things only become large or small when compared to other things. Since the ALL has nothing else to be compared to, it is entirely without size.

The all (if it's finite) can be compared to the smaller parts it's made-up of.

Kind of like the biggest mountain in the world can be compared to all the rocks it's comprised of.

[jufa]

David Quinn wrote:

I don't know about you, but I have no problem defining the ALL - namely, utterly everything.

It is a vey precise definition.

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

Being utterly everything is your definition of the All, then I AM THE ALL, being I am utterly everything in my life, being there would be nothing of definition in my life of awareness if I did not give my life to it. That mean everything in my life works off me. But I am not the cause of me, just as you are not the cause of you, so what is the logical cause for you and I to exist?

In saying this, your statement:

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

is not correct, nor true, for to initiate a logical consequence, there must be a beginning, and end. What you have done is what all others have done, you have not given logic a beginning nor end, therefore, when you say:

we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

you have only begun to unearth your logic, even though you cannot tell your own logics primal cause. So I state to you again

There is no logic for existence

You can't say we are beginning to unearth logic of existence, which is not what I stated, I stated no logic for existence.

You can say your logic began with you. but remember you are not the beginning nor final term of your being of logic because logic existed, in this realm, before you became aware that you were aware of logic.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[mensa-maniac]

Mensa says: I believe my logics primal cause is development. Without development, there is no progression of growth.

David Quinn wrote:

I don't know about you, but I have no problem defining the ALL - namely, utterly everything.

Mensa says: I would greatly appreciate hearing your defining the ALL

It is a vey precise definition.

Please oblige me

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

That's because for ALL there is a reason!

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

Mensa says: The logic of existence is without development you remain ignorant. The logic for existence is development.

Being utterly everything is your definition of the All, then I AM THE ALL, being I am utterly everything in my life, being there would be nothing of definition in my life of awareness if I did not give my life to it. That mean everything in my life works off me. But I am not the cause of me, just as you are not the cause of you, so what is the logical cause for you and I to exist?

The logical cause for anyone to exist is development and from that you've learned.

In saying this, your statement:

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

is not correct, nor true, for to initiate a logical consequence, there must be a beginning, and end. What you have done is what all others have done, you have not given logic a beginning nor end, therefore, when you say:

we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

you have only begun to unearth your logic, even though you cannot tell your own logics primal cause. So I state to you again

There is no logic for existence

The logic for existence is to learn from development

You can't say we are beginning to unearth logic of existence, which is not what I stated, I stated no logic for existence.

You can say your logic began with you. but remember you are not the beginning nor final term of your being of logic because logic existed, in this realm, before you became aware that you were aware of logic.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[mensa-maniac]

There Is Logic For Existence

Not only do you develop from your existence, you develop from what you learn from your existence. Without development you'd retard and stay into ignorance.

The truth is the logic for existence is to accept the God within you, because the God within you can only shine through you if you acknowledge it. Know thyself, because you are a part of God and if you are only 10% a part of God, that makes you 100% of that 10% which means you and I are God as a part of a whole.

It's not that I contradict myself constantly, it's that I see things from different angles.

[David Quinn]

Think of the ALL as being sizeless. Size is a relative term. Things only become large or small when compared to other things. Since the ALL has nothing else to be compared to, it is entirely without size.

The all (if it's finite) can be compared to the smaller parts it's made-up of.

Kind of like the biggest mountain in the world can be compared to all the rocks it's comprised of.

That would be its relative size - which, of course, is not set in concrete. Its relative size is fleeting, borne out of a momentary comparison.

Its absolute size cannot be determined at all.

-

[David Quinn]

David Quinn wrote:

I don't know about you, but I have no problem defining the ALL - namely, utterly everything.

It is a vey precise definition.

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

Being utterly everything is your definition of the All, then I AM THE ALL, being I am utterly everything in my life, being there would be nothing of definition in my life of awareness if I did not give my life to it.

Take care that you don't die, then, or we'll all be stuffed.

But I am not the cause of me, just as you are not the cause of you, so what is the logical cause for you and I to exist?

Everything that is necessary for your existence is the "logical cause" of your existence - e.g. your parents, your genetics, human society, human evolution, food, oxygen, organic molecules, electrons, the sun, the formation of the galaxies, time, space, etc, etc.

In saying this, your statement:

An initial logical consequence of this is that nothing can be excluded from the ALL, not even a god.

So already, with just these few words, we are beginning to unearth the logic of existence.

is not correct, nor true, for to initiate a logical consequence, there must be a beginning, and end. What you have done is what all others have done, you have not given logic a beginning nor end,

It is impossible for the ALL to have a beginning, since whatever we care to pin-point as being "the" cause of the All will necessarily be part of the ALL itself.

Philosophy is all about recognizing what is real. It isn't about chasing phantoms just for the sake of it. There is no point asking where the ALL came from if it is logically impossible for it to have come from anywhere in the first place.

Understanding this point is part of understanding the logic of existence.

-

[mensa-maniac]

There Is Logic for Existence

It's size is infinite, therefore it is not a size, it is a whole of pure energy consciousness that can never die and humanity is a part of that whole. The All is the whole.

[jufa]

David Quinn Wrote:

Take care that you don't die, then, or we'll all be stuffed.

Die, how can that which is death die? How can the untimate everything cease to be?

D.Quinn stated:

Everything that is necessary for your existence is the "logical cause" of your existence - e.g. your parents, your genetics, human society, human evolution, food, oxygen, organic molecules, electrons, the sun, the formation of the galaxies, time, space, etc, etc.

God, [I use this term because you would not define an object of beginning to my question directly or indirectly: "What is the logic for existence?"] did not created anything that was not necessary. Saying this, I then go into the depth of what you call "sub." What is the logic for necessity? Necessity to what, for what? In simple terms, WHY was it necessary for existence to be necessary to be?
D.Quinn states:

It is impossible for the ALL to have a beginning, since whatever we care to pin-point as being "the" cause of the All will necessarily be part of the ALL itself.

Philosophy is all about recognizing what is real. It isn't about chasing phantoms just for the sake of it. There is no point asking where the ALL came from if it is logically impossible for it to have come from anywhere in the first place.

Understanding this point is part of understanding the logic of existence.

The opening sentence void death as David mentioned in the beginning of this post herein, for should it be impossible for the All to have a beginning, it is impossible for the All to have an ending. Is not death, as you have indicated above, an ending? Again, this is not about understanding the logic OF existence, but what is the logic FOR existence

How can recognition of what is real be accomplished when a beginning to Reality cannot be logically defined?

There is no doubt what men think as reality is multi-faceted. But just as equal, there is no doubt what religious people, atheist, theist or you and I think of reality is also multi-faceted. Yet what is reality in the sense of commonality? Sure one can say it is being born, becoming aware of what one is born into, living according to the standards and beliefs of collective commonality, and then dying to be no more. One can say that birth is not the beginning to life, living in the arch of life and dying is not the end. Who then has defined logic for reality?

To see, hear, touch, taste, and smell does not define reality. They only define fragments of awareness. And as this awareness is subjective, it is subjective because it poses in an individuals outer objective vision of objectiveness as: could be, not sure, I think, but I don't know. So then, can the human viewpoint be taken as serious as man thinks it should be?

Our world is always the subjectivity of our objectivity. Everything man is subject to is the object of what he is aware of. Man's awareness, however, is an interpretational experience of experiments of the object to find what that object is subject to. No object of logic has been introduced in this thread for existence to exist.

The basis of all science, philosophy, and religion is to take that which it is aware of in order to find out what it is not aware of. So with man. Man take that which he is mentally aware of to find that which he is not aware of, and this mean he has to be bold enough to go where no man has gone before, and no man has ever gone into the depth of logic, for it is impossible because each man's world of logic is defined by their experience of experiments of interpretation, which means only by an individual's objective visions, and subjective feelings which only he can experience in vision and feelings can be their reality of living within this dimension, but not their logic for existence.

Each man experience the world of his interpretational indoctrination of the collective universal human mentality, which all minds are a wave of. There are branches which strecth out and explore avenues which has even as of now yet to be categorize. This is why
discoveries are continuously being found, and why categories are disrupted continuously. When one man takes the initiative to break free from the mould, {that is to go through the mind to get beyond the mind} and reach for that which even he knows not of is when true progress of "IT", or the "ALL" begins to unfold and that individual can then begin to demonstrate by living, not by theories, to others how to begin to break away an take on the responsibility of finding out for themselves what is "IT" or "ALL" is to them.

But taking responsibility to find out for themselves what "IT" or "ALL" means to them would be true that everything man experienced, or thought could fit into the categories of his isms and be the acceptable universal truth across the board, if man could say he is the originator of thought. But man cannot say that, for even though all experiences are in some form or manner the execution of thought, those experiences only became a visible pattern because of how one has lived their lives according to their interpretations of those thoughts received. This means the categories of their isms were established because of conformity. One can always break the pattern of conformority because as everything else in the world of materialism, there is a beginning and end objectified.

To ask what is the logic for existence is the same as asking what is consciousness. This is not asking about occurrences, memory serves this purpose. To ask what logic or consciousness is, is to ask what is this life in me that allows me to think, perceive, that is intuitive, which allows me to remember, feel, will, and empathize. What am I to be able to experience? It is impossible to look from the position of your mind to find the answers to these questions, because what you have observed is relativity of interpretation. But relative interpretation is not cognitive validation that allows you to even begin to pinpoint what the ligic for existence could be, because there is no beginning to the "All" of logic. So one is always expounding their own subjectivity in hopes of harmonizing with the objectivity of what they believe they are logically thinking even though there is no beginning to their logic of thought. How can there be when, to use your words: "it is impossible for All to have a beginning."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[pointexter]

Banging my finger with a hammer is a quicker path to awareness of existence than linking up images in the echo chamber using an ordered thought process like logic. As a device for reflecting upon those images in the cuckoo's nest, logic is the most functionally utilitarian echo box. It bounces the echoes around in a consistent and predictable manner.

[Blair]

Pointexter, What kind of fucking stupid name is that.

[mensa-maniac]

There is logic for existence!

And I'll find it!

Since the logic for existence is to find the answer for logic for existence I will attempt to find it.

Let's assume the Bible speaks truth. Presently, it speaks of our understanding coming a little at a time, line upon line, precept upon precept, it takes a lifetime for answers to unfold for understanding.

If God is humanities creator, the answer is within one of us, to be discovered. If I were the almighty God who created humanity, I would want my creation to know about me, therefore, I would plant ideas into their consciousnesses, like the idea of FAITH that I exist, then I would wait for them to acknowledge this FAITH that I exist as a mighty power over humanity, so humans would have me to believe in, instead of believing they are on earth all ALONE.

But, if there is no such God, then we humans are all ALONE, is this the logic for existence to know we're all ALONE? If we're all ALONE, there is no logic for existence. So I conclude that the logic for existence is FAITH to BELIEVE we're not ALONE!

[Pincho Paxton]

There is logic for existence!

And I'll find it!

Since the logic for existence is to find the answer for logic for existence I will attempt to find it.

Let's assume the Bible speaks truth. Presently, it speaks of our understanding coming a little at a time, line upon line, precept upon precept, it takes a lifetime for answers to unfold for understanding.

If God is humanities creator, the answer is within one of us, to be discovered. If I were the almighty God who created humanity, I would want my creation to know about me, therefore, I would plant ideas into their consciousnesses, like the idea of FAITH that I exist, then I would wait for them to acknowledge this FAITH that I exist as a mighty power over humanity, so humans would have me to believe in, instead of believing they are on earth all ALONE.

But, if there is no such God, then we humans are all ALONE, is this the logic for existence to know we're all ALONE? If we're all ALONE, there is no logic for existence. So I conclude that the logic for existence is FAITH to BELIEVE we're not ALONE!

I have ideas planted in my brain that God does not exist. I don't feel alone, the 6 billion people around me sort of make me feel that I am not alone... funny that?

[mensa-maniac]

Humanity is more than one person Pincho. I'm speaking of humanity as a whole being alone on earth with no God. Couldn't you understand this simple concept?

But, imagine if God is truth and he does exist, just imagine it. It says in the Bible that when Jesus comes ALL eyes and ears will see and hear his arrival. He will come on a cloud for all eyes to see, even those in their graves will be awakened.

My question is, if every person who ever lived on earth will be awakened from their graves, our earth is not big enough to hold everyone in the whole wide world. Therefore, other planets will be discovered to equip everyone before the coming of Christ.