The Problem With Women Today

[Nick]

Yes, and he gets her attention for what reason? Obviously it's to see if she will deem him worthy enough of being a proper mate. However you want to look at it, it's still the woman who makes the final decision about whether a relationship between her and a man goes beyond flirtation and on to something more complex.

Some of us call it "consent" - a revolutionary and confusing new concept to some here it seems. Annnnddddd.....believe it or not....either party is generally capable of giving or removing their consent at any point in time, there is no "final decision." Amazing world we live in aint it?

No final decision eh? What do women have to do except look pretty and wait for men to approach her? How is she not in the position of the decider, the one who makes or breaks the aspirations of all men? Men on the other hand will work their asses off for the attention of women, fight for their attention, destroy and build entire civilizations for women; and for what, a non-verdict? I don't think so, Jason. Ever heard of a thing calledPussy Power?

[Nick]

I don't know what point you were trying to make. Nothing you said contradicts what I said. We agree.

My point is that Sue is spot on when she said men must do whatever they can to attract the attention of as many women as possible, which often involves thinking and worrying about the same things a woman does, women then, in turn, render the final verdict.

Also, evolutionarily speaking, it's the woman who must carry and nurture a baby through out pregnancy and infancy, so why wouldn't she be choosy? Men on the other hand just want to spread their seed around to as many women as possible, and in order to do this he can't afford to be choosy.

[Shahrazad]

Nick,

My point is that Sue is spot on when she said men must do whatever they can to attract the attention of as many women as possible, which often involves thinking and worrying about the same things a woman does, women then, in turn, render the final verdict.

Why as many women as possible? Should he not concentrate on the few that he likes much more than all the others?

[Nick]

Nick,

My point is that Sue is spot on when she said men must do whatever they can to attract the attention of as many women as possible, which often involves thinking and worrying about the same things a woman does, women then, in turn, render the final verdict.

Why as many women as possible? Should he not concentrate on the few that he likes much more than all the others?

Eventually he does, but in the earlier stages of his quest for female acceptance it's smart to make himself as widely available as possible, simply to increase his odds. Then when he starts to get an idea of those few who are most accepting of him, he will begin to concentrate his efforts on them.

FYI I edited my previous post after you responded to it

[Jason]

No final decision eh? What do women have to do except look pretty and wait for men to approach her?

You mean, she has to wait for the man to make the decision to approach her!?!

How is she not in the position of the decider, the one who makes or breaks the aspirations of all men?

She is in the position of decider, but so is he. That's what mutual consent is. The man and the woman are both constantly making decisions which can make or break any possible union at any point. Both have the ability to "make or break the aspirations" of the other. It's possible for the male to end things at any time. Go talk to some ugly fat chicks and see how much power as deciders they have.

Men on the other hand will work their asses off for the attention of women, fight for their attention, destroy and build entire civilizations for women; and for what, a non-verdict? I don't think so, Jason. Ever heard of a thing calledPussy Power?

Continually waxing, plucking, shaving, painting the face, plastering with scents, styling cutting and dying hair, and walking around all day in unstable confining high-heeled shoes and clothes is a lot of work too no doubt. I actually laugh out loud derisively when I see women hobbling around dolled-up like that sometimes. Most men aren't doing jack shit anyway - they're fucken lowly herdly wage slaves, a tiny cog in the machine, following social scripts and expectations like most women are. Building civilisations HAH! This is your insanity: trying to identify individuals with their gender as a whole.

[Nick]

You mean, she has to wait for the man to make the decision to approach her!?!

Right, and then she either gives him the thumbs up or thumbs down. She decides whether their relationship turns into something more substantial, something containing the prospect of sexual intercourse and reproduction.

Go talk to some ugly fat chicks and see how much power as deciders they have.

So she can't be as picky. That doesn't mean you don't need her acceptance if you want an intimate relationship with her.

Continually waxing, plucking, shaving, painting the face, plastering with scents, styling cutting and dying hair, and walking around all day in unstable confining high-heeled shoes and clothes is a lot of work too no doubt.

Women love that shit, in fact, they can't get enough of it. Women know they don't need to go to those lengths in order to get men to pursue them. That's like calling it work when children dress up for halloween in their most kick ass and creative costumes. The whole process is endless fun!

Building civilisations HAH!

Oh, was it aliens?

This is your insanity: trying to identify individuals with their gender as a whole.

I am talking about gender as a whole you moron. I.E. NOT INDIVIDUALS

[Jason]

You mean, she has to wait for the man to make the decision to approach her!?!

Right, and then she either gives him the thumbs up or thumbs down. She decides whether their relationship turns into something more substantial, something containing the prospect of sexual intercourse and reproduction.

In your scenario he decides whether it will even get to the stage where she has the chance to make that decision. He is thus as responsible for the decision to have sexual intercourse and reproduction as she. Even if she gives the thumbs up he could still decide not to go through with it. You keep trying to spin it as if women are the overriding deciders but it is equal mutual decisions all the way.

Go talk to some ugly fat chicks and see how much power as deciders they have.

So she can't be as picky. That doesn't mean you don't need her acceptance if you want an intimate relationship with her.

That wasn't the point. The point was that they are an example of men's decisions "making or breaking aspirations" of women.

Continually waxing, plucking, shaving, painting the face, plastering with scents, styling cutting and dying hair, and walking around all day in unstable confining high-heeled shoes and clothes is a lot of work too no doubt.

Women love that shit, in fact, they can't get enough of it. Women know they don't need to go to those lengths in order to get men to pursue them. That's like calling it work when children dress up for halloween in their most kick ass and creative costumes. The whole process is endless fun!

Yeah you're probably right. Men like doing lots of stuff that women probably find attractive too - risk taking, competition, attaining power.

This is your insanity: trying to identify individuals with their gender as a whole.

I am talking about gender as a whole you moron. I.E. NOT INDIVIDUALS

You need a fucking smack to the head.

[Nick]

In your scenario he decides whether it will even get to the stage where she has the chance to make that decision. He is thus as responsible for the decision to have sexual intercourse and reproduction as she. Even if she gives the thumbs up he could still decide not to go through with it. You keep trying to spin it as if women are the overriding deciders but it is equal mutual decisions all the way.

The only one talking about responsibility and percentages is you. I'm simply explaining the mating processes of humans, and part of that process is that it is the woman who makes the final judment in which men are worthy of her attention, submission, and of course her pussy.

That wasn't the point. The point was that they are an example of men's decisions "making or breaking aspirations" of women.

Good job Jason, too bad that has nothing to do with my following statement, my actual point.

Jason, men compete for pussy, and since women have the pussy, they are put in a position where they can choose their favorite competitors to give the pussy to. This isn't a revolutionary idea. Anyone who isn't blind can go to an institution where men and women mingle and witness first hand this miraculous event taking place. Tell me your skull isn't as thick as I suspect it may be.

[jupta]

R: These forces can be transcended, to create a better form of evolution.

J: How?

R: Principally, by studying the nature of reality and sparing nothing in that quest for understanding and revolution.

J: But evolution itself is dependent on making way for the best survivors. In the current world situation, the best survivors are still the ones with money, physique and good looks, and not the enlightened ones. The only way to create a better form of evolution in the sense that you are talking about would be to dispose of sexual reproduction altogether.

When i say "better form of evolution" i mean a process of improvement that isn't based on reproductive success.

From the turn things are taking, I'd say that that is almost impossible for the entire human race.

Maybe some individuals(all/most of them male) will break off in the future to asexual reproduction, while the rest adhere to sexual. It is not very hard to imagine who'd arise victorious from there on.

[Jason]

In your scenario he decides whether it will even get to the stage where she has the chance to make that decision. He is thus as responsible for the decision to have sexual intercourse and reproduction as she. Even if she gives the thumbs up he could still decide not to go through with it. You keep trying to spin it as if women are the overriding deciders but it is equal mutual decisions all the way.

The only one talking about responsibility and percentages is you. I'm simply explaining the mating processes of humans, and part of that process is that it is the woman who makes the final judment in which men are worthy of her attention, submission, and of course her pussy.

So, according to you, if women make the final judgement about which men are worthy, does that then mean that men make the initial judgement about which women are worthy?

That wasn't the point. The point was that they are an example of men's decisions "making or breaking aspirations" of women.

Good job Jason, too bad that has nothing to do with my following statement, my actual point.

Jason, men compete for pussy, and since women have the pussy, they are put in a position where they can choose their favorite competitors to give the pussy to.

But....women compete for men too, and since men have the sperm/wealth/protection they can choose their favourite competitors to give their sperm/wealth/protection to.

[Blair]

You can come up with all sorts of imaginary scenarios, but i know for sure that it's not the truth.

Nope, you don't know squat buddy. You are severely deluded.

Looking at your imaginary scenario, one problem with it is that if a stiff, smug, creepy douchbag was involved, the young girls would not have sufficient interest or comedic motivation to risk doing that, not to a creepy guy. Women stay well away from creepy guys, unless there is a hostile mood.

Hohoho, the young girls are quite safe from the creepy guy, society takes care of its own. They would have assessed you as a little creepy, as I said, and basically a dickweed.

They don't want you Rhett, neither do most all the other checkout girls who you go through and fantasize they have the hots for you. They think you are a twat, they make fun of the likes of you all the time. You are their social bread and butter.

[Robert]

Maybe you didn't read into the discussion enough, because you'd have to be an idiot to think any of this discussion is intended to help people hook up or "score".

You're right Nick, I apologise. I let my overly jaded attitude towards women get the better of me in that emotional and childish idiotic outburst of mine.

[skipair]

It comes down to who wants the other more. I'd say in 99% of the cases the man wants his particular woman more than that woman wants her particular man - especially over time. In this sense we can say women are the chosers.

[Nick]

So, according to you, if women make the final judgement about which men are worthy, does that then mean that men make the initial judgement about which women are worthy?

I'd say that men make the initial judgment (if you want to call it that) that women as a whole are worth living and working for. Naturally they hope and strive to get picked by the most attractive women.

I don't like the word judgment in this context because to me it implies that there was a degree of conscious thought involved in making the judgment call. In actuality it's more like men just accept the notion that women are what they should live for based on social norms and pressures.

But....women compete for men too,

Yes, but men and women play vastly different roles in this competition.

and since men have the sperm/wealth/protection they can choose their favourite competitors to give their sperm/wealth/protection to.

Jason, if you are happy with the simple notion that both members of both sex compete for eachother, you're simple little mind can go right ahead and do that. Unfortunately for you it barely even scratches the surface of what I've been talking about.

[Nick]

Maybe you didn't read into the discussion enough, because you'd have to be an idiot to think any of this discussion is intended to help people hook up or "score".

You're right Nick, I apologise. I let my overly jaded attitude towards women get the better of me in that emotional and childish idiotic outburst of mine.

No problem. Feel free to weigh in on the topic if you want.

[Jason]

So, according to you, if women make the final judgement about which men are worthy, does that then mean that men make the initial judgement about which women are worthy?

I'd say that men make the initial judgment (if you want to call it that) that women as a whole are worth living and working for. Naturally they hope and strive to get picked by the most attractive women.

I don't like the word judgment in this context because to me it implies that there was a degree of conscious thought involved in making the judgment call. In actuality it's more like men just accept the notion that women are what they should live for based on social norms and pressures.

I was referring to the initial decision/judgement a man makes to pursue a particular woman(as a contrast against a woman judging a particular man worthy of reciprocation.)

But....women compete for men too,

Yes, but men and women play vastly different roles in this competition.

Yes...and?

and since men have the sperm/wealth/protection they can choose their favourite competitors to give their sperm/wealth/protection to.

Jason, if you are happy with the simple notion that both members of both sex compete for eachother, you're simple little mind can go right ahead and do that.

^Look what my simple little mind picked up that yours didn't. ;P

Unfortunately for you it barely even scratches the surface of what I've been talking about.

Actually I'm reasonably well-versed in economic, biological and evolutionary analysis of romantic/reproductive male/female relationships. The reality is I was trying to address the ongoing misogynistic undertones that seem to be present in a lot of these discussions on GF. You and Rhett were the main targets, although there is a general tone on this thread, and your first post that I responded to simply allowed me the easiest entry.

It's actually a victim mentality that I see, and then a corresponding attempt to bolster oneself by identifying with one's gender - "Us males built civilisation!" and so forth. Admittedly I may have misfired a bit in targeting you the way I did; I'm not sure you really fit this mold so much. But hey, I like your energy and feistiness.

[skipair]

Good song.

[Shahrazad]

Nick, in my neck of the woods, there are six women for each eligible man. Men decide which of so many women are worthy of their attention. The women who don't get chosen make no decision at all. It is the man who starts the process.

Like Jason said, you seem to have a need to see your whole gender as the victim of the other gender. That is why you ascribe the responsibility to women.

Jason, if you are happy with the simple notion that both members of both sex compete for eachother, you're simple little mind can go right ahead and do that.

Your way of looking at it is even simpler: that the competition applies to men and not to women.

[sue hindmarsh]

Skip's "Good Song"

It's A Man's Man's Man's World by James Brown

This is a man's world, this is a man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl

You see, man made the cars to take us over the road
Man made the trains to carry heavy loads
Man made electric light to take us out of the dark
Man made the boat for the water, like Noah made the ark

This is a man's, a man's, a man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl

Man thinks about a little baby girls and a baby boys
Man makes then happy 'cause man makes them toys
And after man has made everything, everything he can
You know that man makes money to buy from other man

This is a man's world
But it wouldn't be nothing, nothing without a woman or a girl

He's lost in the wilderness
He's lost in bitterness
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
In the version you linked to, the last two lines were cut. They are important lines for they encapsulate the inner turmoil men feel when they think themselves to be unloved and/or undervalued. But all that does is reveal just how poor in spirit men really are. They won’t face square on the consequences of their lives; instead they just whine.

[Carl G]

Nick, in my neck of the woods, there are six women for each eligible man.

I've heard you say such things before. Why are there so few men? The ratio is more equal here, until you get above 65 years of age, whereupon widows outnumber widowers by an increasing margin, but even then not six to one.

[Shahrazad]

Carl,

I've heard you say such things before. Why are there so few men?

I've explained the reason in detail before -- I think you missed it. It has to do with more women being smart and having college degrees than men, and with too many men being gay.

I am convinced that this gay phenomenon is not just a Panama thing. There are a lot more gay men in the world than people think. I just can't prove it, because men keep denying they sleep with men.

[Alex Jacob]

While the war of opinions goes on, I thought I'd take this opportunity to invite any of you (my dear friends, my semi-friends, my mostly enemies, even my outright enemies---Dan too if he can prove he can even get an erection) to come down to my neck of the woods (Central Colombia) where---and I guarantee this!---you can get 'more pussy than Frank Sinatra'. And brothers, I am talking about very good looking, slender women who are also quite smart, at least most of them. Don't go to Panama where all the girls look like daughters and grand-daughters of Manuel Noriega, the man with the face of a pinapple. If all the men there are turning gay, there has to be a reason. What you are NOT being told is the outrageous reputation that Panamanian women have (and I have verified this) as 'useless'. It is true that there are many women graduates of university but if you ever attended a class you'd cleary see that a modestly intelligent champanzee could get all Bs withough sweating. Panama is a nation of dullards! They don't read and they can't think! We built the canal for them and all they do is sit back and grab bananas from the trees and live off our accomplishment!

Now, Colombia on the other hand, these people are sharp as tacks (many of them), there is a literary culture here, and when this war finally ends (it is ending) Colombia is going to surge ahead. Colombians love their country and their culture, Panamanians can't even remember their last names! Colombians fiercely defend their traditions, the Panamanians will sell their sister for a dollar! I am offering an all expense paid trip to Pussylandia to the first one to get a PM to me! (And you aint gonna have to stick nuthin in yer pants, jack! What you are workin' with will be happily accepted...

[sue hindmarsh]

Alex,

You surely are one classy dude.

[Alex Jacob]

Sue, you are getting wiser by the day!

[sue hindmarsh]

Rhett:

As for the young girls, one experiment i experienced recently is i looked at a girl from a distance a few times at a supermarket i frequent on one day, and the next time i went there i noticed a friend of hers tell the girl i was there, and the girl came over very near me, doing something of course so it wasn't obvious. Thus she gave me the opportunity to check her out more, maybe ask her out, and if i recall correctly at one moment she even turned and smiled at me. I was under no illusion as to what was happenning. There is a lot to be learnt if you spare a few moments for it.

Prince:

Or, or, check this out (get it, check this out, hahaha) she remembered what a stiff, full-of-yourself, slightly creepy douchebag you were last time, spotted you again, and told her friend to go and flirt with you, to see what you did, so they could have a jolly laugh about you later on in their lunchbreak, over coffee and ciggies.

Rhett:

You can come up with all sorts of imaginary scenarios, but i know for sure that it's not the truth.

Looking at your imaginary scenario, one problem with it is that if a stiff, smug, creepy douchbag was involved, the young girls would not have sufficient interest or comedic motivation to risk doing that, not to a creepy guy. Women stay well away from creepy guys, unless there is a hostile mood.

Rhett,

You too can “come up with all sorts of imaginary scenarios”, which is the point Prince makes in his post. Prince – GF’s self-appointed Court Jester – though not always on target when slinging his arrows, has this time landed very close. For one thing, he’s rightly pegged your behavior as “creepy”:

Rhett: As for the young girls, one experiment i experienced recently is i looked at a girl from a distance a few times at a supermarket i frequent on one day,

But maybe for Rhett [surname deleted at Rhett's request -DQ] – a man who considers himself to be “not a usual person” – hanging around the local supermarket, checking out young women, may be just a normal day.

Prince also considered your behaviour to be “smug”:

Rhett: and the next time i went there i noticed a friend of hers tell the girl i was there, and the girl came over very near me, doing something of course so it wasn't obvious. Thus she gave me the opportunity to check her out more, maybe ask her out,

“Doing something of course so it wasn’t obvious.”

You can’t blame Prince for jumping all over you. You left yourself wide open. Perhaps if you took yourself and this forum more seriously, you’d not be filling up threads with your boastful gossip. But obviously you don’t take either seriously. You can’t even bring yourself to type a capital ‘I’ when referring to yourself.

Rhett:There is a lot to be learnt if you spare a few moments for it.

Why not take a few yourself.