David Icke

[Tomas]

Has anyone here heard of him?

To me, he seems like a very intelligent and sincere fellow, but some of the things he talks about appear too out there (if you know what I mean). I'd imagine that, if it were true (his main message), he would purposefully be wrapping the truth in fairy tales (reptilians, etc), because of fear for his life. I mean, it seems like he's made it his mission-in-life to expose greedy power-seeking world leaders and their secret plans to the public (of course he probably earned a lot of money from it), so if such powers were to exist, then it wouldn't be too difficult to imagine - if he were to be more explicit - these leaders would prefer to keep their secrets, secret.

...On second thought: it may very well just be another ploy for profit! What do you think?

The tribes of Israel show there is a 13th bloodline.

Reptilian shape shifters? Why not?

The angels looked upon the human women ... and mated.


Proverbs 6:6-8

.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Interesting vid. It also shows that the UK is more free than the US. In that scene where he was filming in public and the police came, he told the police "don't tell me what to do." In the US, he would have been tased for that statement.

[Renaissance]

Interesting vid. It also shows that the UK is more free than the US. In that scene where he was filming in public and the police came, he told the police "don't tell me what to do." In the US, he would have been tased for that statement.

In spite of his faults David Icke is a very intelligent, wise and interesting fellow. The videos speak for themselves.

[Dan Rowden]

Well, I have read several of his books and they are extremely well annotated. Most of his books mention nothing about the reptilians. The one about the world trade center is very good.

What does he say in that vid that is especially revealing?

[DivineIntercourse]

In that scene where he was filming in public and the police came, he told the police "don't tell me what to do." In the US, he would have been tased for that statement.

I was reminded of this.

[Renaissance]

Well, I have read several of his books and they are extremely well annotated. Most of his books mention nothing about the reptilians. The one about the world trade center is very good.

What does he say in that vid that is especially revealing?

What is especially revealing is how down to Earth and level-headed David Icke is. He in NO WAY gives one the impression that he is an insane nutjob, as you would have us think of him, Dan. You are just determined that YOUR assessment is the final authority in any matter. You don't care about the evidence. All you care about is being right.

I used to be like you before I matured emotionally. You are obviously suffering from an insecurity complex and you have to put people below you so that you can feel smugly better than they are.

Lie to us all and say that you don't consider yourself to be wiser and more intelligent than David Icke.

[Iolaus]

I didn't watch the vid. I have watched one or two.

[Animus]

I can't find any evidence supporting David Icke's conclusions about reptiles. I understand the motif of the Annunaki but don't see any connection to reality. Similarly the secret world order stuff is relatively unsubstantiated.

My vision of the "New World Order" kind of goes like this:

Corporation + Democracy = Psychopathic entities who are beyond moral reproach and who's members feel no responsibility to ethics.

These entities may co-operate giving the illusion of a "World Order" but their influence is rather more limited. I see no reason that this explanation is less rational than an ancient secret plan to enslave humanity. But to be honest I don't really know.

[Renaissance]

Obviously you didn't know where to look:

Credo Mutwa:

http://www.google.com/search?q=credo+mu ... lz=1I7HPIA

[DivineIntercourse]

I've had enough of this kind of stuff! It bores me now, and I really don't care about the game of "hidden messages", etc... My reason for bringing this up is simply because when one goes "crazy" or has some sort of episode, they naturally want to understand what had happened to them and what was it that sucked them into believing such BS, upon recovery (so that it doesn't happen again, or if it happens, to handle things differently).

I don't really understand why this thread has collected so many posts in such a short amount of time, but that may be because... I'm not interested in stuff like this. I hardly ever watch the news. Whatever crap happens in this world (i.e. war in iraq, the dollar goes down, gas prices rise, etc) just doesn't interest me and never really has. What David Icke says is like a drug, sucking vulnerable people into it.

[Renaissance]

Are you in the habit of asking about things you don't care about?

[DivineIntercourse]

Look, I'm not going to get into trying to explain it to you. I'm going to bed now. Just give it a rest and do the same...

No wonder these things take time!

[Renaissance]

You come here asking about David Icke. We share what we know and now you say that you don't care about the subject.

It makes you sound crazier than David Icke, that's for certain.

Credo Mutwa is David Icke's main source regarding shapeshifting reptilian aliens. If you want to condemn anyone on the subject don't condemn David Icke. Condemn Credo Mutwa.

If you research into Credo you should find that he is a very well respected man in Africa.


"Every school child in South Africa, sir, knows about the story of a princess called Khombecansini. Khombecansini was to have married a handsome Prince called Kakaka, a name which means “the enlightened one”. Now, one day while Khombecansini was gathering firewood in the bush, she met a creature called an Imbulu. And this Imbulu was a lizard which has the body and the limbs of a human being, but a long tail. And this lizard spoke to Princess Khombecansini, “Oh, how beautiful you are, girl, I wish I could be like you. I wish I could look like you. Can I come close to you?” said the Imbulu lizard woman to the princess.

And the princess said, “Yes, you can.”

And as the lizard, which was a taller one, came close to the girl, she spat into the girl’s eyes and she began to change. That is, the lizard suddenly changed into a human shape and this lizard began to look more and more and more and more like the girl, with the exception of her long, pointed tail. And then, with her sudden burst of violence, the lizard woman sealed the princess and removed all her bangles and her beads and her wedding skirt off her, and she put them on. Thus, the lizard became the princess.

Now there were two identical women in the bush, the shape-shifted lizard woman and the original woman. And the lizard woman said to the original woman, “Now you are my slave. Now you are going to accompany me to the marriage. I will be you and you will be my slave, come-on!” She took a stick and started beating up the poor princess. And then she went, accompanied by other girls who were bride’s maids, according to Zulu custom, and she arrived at Prince Kakaka’s village. But, before they reached the village she had to do something about her tail, that is, the shape-shifting woman had, somehow, to hide the tail. So, she forced the princess to weave a net out of fiber and she tucked the tail in and she tied it tight to herself. She now looked like a Zulu woman with attractive, very big buttocks, when seen from outside...."

"Now, sir, this story has got many versions in it. Throughout South Africa, amongst many tribes, you’ll find stories of these amazing creatures who are capable of changing from reptile to human being, and from reptile to any other animal of their choice. And these creatures, sir, do really exist. No matter where you go throughout Southern, Eastern, Western, and Central Africa, you’ll find that the description of these creatures is the same. Even amongst tribes which never, throughout their long history, had contact with each other at all.

So, there ARE such creatures. Where they come from, I will never claim to know, sir. But they are associated with certain stars in the sky, and one of these stars is a large group of stars which is part of the Milky Way, which our people call Ingiyab, which means “The Great Serpent”. And there is a red star, a redish star, near the tip of this huge rim of stars which our people call IsoneNkanyamba...."

--Credo Mutwa

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_credo_mutwa03.htm

[CultOfByron]

My first encounter with Icke was a book called "The Robot's Rebellion" published in 1994. I had heard all about his "son of god" comments on the BBC's Wogan show so it was with scepticism that I engaged with this book*. I found it to be a pleasant surprise as it seemed to be a well-researched critique of religion and power. It did contain a lot of "channeled" information and while I remain sceptical about what may have been actually experienced (more like his intuitive imagination at play), I would say that the experience was a positive one as it has informed my position of inquiry into "the nature of the world".

As an appendix to the 1991 Wogan affair, in 2006 he was once again interviewed by the presenter. His demeanor had changed dramatically and he had become much 'better'/more confident at presenting himself and his argument. He explained that in 1990 he had some kind of mystical experience and that rather than try to see through this and understand what had happened, the popular press (and indeed the populace at large) had retreated into a position of ridicule. While it can be argued that Icke didn't exactly help his case and that there may be more worthy cases of inquiry, the phenomenon that has emerged 17 years later has revealed a great many things about how far people are willing to go in order to give their lives meaning, Icke included.

If there is to be a conclusion to this point then it is this: Icke, along with popular texts such as The Matrix (as a trilogy) are extremely damaging to the potential for any kind of achievable social reform. They take legitimate ideas of human nature, power, the nature of social structures, phenomenology and associate them with an unsubstantiatable conception of metaphysical reality enabled by a supernatural mode of perception. Since such a mode of perception may not be possible for humans as we exist now, and even if it did this might not translate into that having any effect on 'reality', these 'truths' about the nature of our reality are rendered fantastic in the popular consciousness. The importance here is that you have to already have a kind of insight in order to understand and be sceptical about such texts.

*although it has to be said that I understand what he was 'trying' to say on the show about god, it's just that, I believe, the English language is a difficult language in which to communicate these ideas (being as it is, a 'bastard' language) and mainstream television is at present a totally inadequate medium.

[Alex Jacob]

CultOfByron wrote:

"Since such a mode of perception may not be possible for humans as we exist now, and even if it did this might not translate into that having any effect on 'reality', these 'truths' about the nature of our reality are rendered fantastic in the popular consciousness. The importance here is that you have to already have a kind of insight in order to understand and be sceptical about such texts."

It's peculiar how, when we have all the modern means of understanding quite precisely how concentrations of power go about winning power, and we really don't need to resort to any supernatural description, but that now, in our modernity, in order to 'understand' the true way things work, and to get behind the veil, there are those who resort to a Medieval world-view, to turn back to it in order to better 'understand', and to reapply it.

De Mirabilibus Mundi

[CultOfByron]

It's peculiar how, when we have all the modern means of understanding quite precisely how concentrations of power go about winning power, and we really don't need to resort to any supernatural description, but that now, in our modernity, in order to 'understand' the true way things work, and to get behind the veil, there are those who resort to a Medieval world-view, to turn back to it in order to better 'understand', and to reapply it.

It is to do with ideas of 'disenchantment' and 'loss of meaning' that come about in the popular consciousness as a result of these modern means of understanding. These are cultural hangovers, so to speak, of that medieval mindset. Such supernatural ideas and conceptions are seductive to those who do not have a sceptical approach to 'life' and it is the challenge of social and educational institutions to buck the trend back to what appears to me to be more dogmatic forms of religious assertion. I agree with Kierkegaard in this respect that a finite being cannot comprehend the infinite, but the 'right' for such finite beings to attempt to comprehend it is undeniable, common sense perhaps*? The problem with pre-modern religious dogma clashing with modernist (in the non-artistic sense) social institutions is when those in power with strongly held religious convictions allow these beliefs to shape their world-view, subsequently their policy. It is perhaps a banal example but I imagine a government with an atheist/materialist at the helm would look quite different to that of a 'pistol-packing, bible-toting hockey mom. I'll leave it up to discussion as to which would be the better...

But to drag this reply, kicking and screaming, back to topic; the modern means of understanding the world have always lacked the romantic appeal and a sense of 'meaning' that fantastic texts and religious dogma provide. I really don't think that this is the failure of science or the modern methods, rather the failure of people-at-large and the everyday institutions of life to individually and collectively come to terms with the conclusions of modernity with any other reaction than despair and longingly looking back to a more superstitious past.

*Edited to clarify that it's the right that's common sense, not necessarily the urge to comprehend the infinite!

[Jason]

But to drag this reply, kicking and screaming, back to topic; the modern means of understanding the world have always lacked the romantic appeal and a sense of 'meaning' that fantastic texts and religious dogma provide. I really don't think that this is the failure of science or the modern methods, rather the failure of people-at-large and the everyday institutions of life to individually and collectively come to terms with the conclusions of modernity with any other reaction than despair and longingly looking back to a more superstitious past.

Interesting that science, technology and engineering types, the "nerdy" science fans, are stereotypically into fantasy fiction like Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons.

[CultOfByron]

Interesting that science, technology and engineering types, the "nerdy" science fans, are stereotypically into fantasy fiction like Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons.

Good point, Jason! Although the emphasis here is on 'stereotypically', there's no smoke without fire. I wonder if there is a correlation and how one would go about finding out?

[Jason]

CultOfByron, I and others wrote a bit more about these types of ideas in this post and thread.

[Renaissance]

"Now, sir, this story has got many versions in it. Throughout South Africa, amongst many tribes, you’ll find stories of these amazing creatures who are capable of changing from reptile to human being, and from reptile to any other animal of their choice. And these creatures, sir, do really exist. No matter where you go throughout Southern, Eastern, Western, and Central Africa, you’ll find that the description of these creatures is the same. Even amongst tribes which never, throughout their long history, had contact with each other at all.

So, there ARE such creatures. Where they come from, I will never claim to know, sir. But they are associated with certain stars in the sky, and one of these stars is a large group of stars which is part of the Milky Way, which our people call Ingiyab, which means “The Great Serpent”. And there is a red star, a redish star, near the tip of this huge rim of stars which our people call IsoneNkanyamba...."

--Credo Mutwa

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_credo_mutwa03.htm

MY COMMENT:

You people who tend to call David Icke crazy always seem to harp on the reptilian shapeshifters. You are usually so ignorant that you don't realize that David Icke did not make up the information. So, where are you now in this matter? Are you certain that Credo Mutwa doesn't have a clue about the tribes in Africa and that YOU know better? I don't see you all eager to call Credo Mutwa an insane nutjob. Suddenly the many testimonies of such creatures by many isolated tribes in Africa have left you unsure about the matter.

Again I say that if I cannot personally verify ANYTHING it remains mythology to me and that most definitely includes CNN! So, I don't know about this alien shapeshifting business, but at least 80% of the rest of David Icke's information seems quite plausible to me. Alex Jones sure does agree with just about everything David Icke says...besides the alien reptilian Annunaki.

Where are you, Dan? Flippantly tell us that Credo Mutwa doesn't have a clue about Africa and that YOU know better.

[Cory Duchesne]

You people who tend to call David Icke crazy always seem to harp on the reptilian shapeshifters. You are usually so ignorant that you don't realize that David Icke did not make up the information.

That would mean he's just repeating what some else said, which makes him even worse.

[Renaissance]

You people who tend to call David Icke crazy always seem to harp on the reptilian shapeshifters. You are usually so ignorant that you don't realize that David Icke did not make up the information.

That would mean he's just repeating what some else said, which makes him even worse.

What do you think news reporters do?

What David Icke has said was that during his talks people would periodically cross his path who would tell him about the secret blood-drinking ceremonies of the Illuminati and how some of them would turn into reptilian creatures. Finally, David Icke decided that he had to share this information about the blood-drinking Illuminati no matter how much ridicule he knew he would endure. That took real bravery alright. Credo Mutwa seems to be the only person bold and courageous enough to make himself publicly known regarding the information of shapeshifting reptilian creatures. The other people who told such stories to David Icke were terrified to be made publicly known. Who could blame them?

Do I believe it? I don't know, but...well....

[guest_of_logic]

You people who tend to call David Icke crazy always seem to harp on the reptilian shapeshifters. You are usually so ignorant that you don't realize that David Icke did not make up the information.

That would mean he's just repeating what some else said, which makes him even worse.

Not if the person that he gained his information from has solid reasons to believe in it. I'm not taking a position on whether or not this applies in the current debate, I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument: there's nothing wrong with repeating something that someone else has said if that person is actually right.

[Cory Duchesne]

You people who tend to call David Icke crazy always seem to harp on the reptilian shapeshifters. You are usually so ignorant that you don't realize that David Icke did not make up the information.

That would mean he's just repeating what some else said, which makes him even worse.

Not if the person that he gained his information from has solid reasons to believe in it.

How am I supposed to determined if said person has solid reasons for believing it?

I'm not taking a position on whether or not this applies in the current debate, I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument: there's nothing wrong with repeating something that someone else has said if that person is actually right.

If you don't have solid reasons for believing the person is right, then repeating them is wrong, regardless of whether or not they are right or wrong.

[Renaissance]

Sounds to me like you are 'repeating' the point of view of someone else.

David Icke obviously felt that hearing the information about shapeshifting reptilians being from someone of respect firsthand was better than repeating it so he created an entire DVD interview with Credo Mutwa. Of course, that's still not good enough for you. What can anyone say? You are parroting a philosophy that will always keep you very limited.

You won't believe it until you see it firsthand, right?