Wisdom should touch all things.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Here,

To that end, perhaps a thread discussing what is and is not relevant to wisdom (and the path to it) might be germane. Go for it if you want.

Here,

What Sam means is that when one is fully enlightened, he can analyze reality through any context, whether it be economics, politics or astronomy. His areas of inquiry are not limited to the fundamentals. His enlightenment is capable of stretching across all areas of intellectual thought.

Here,

It's not the subject matter, as such, it's the level at which it's engaged. There's often (if not always, really) a deeper dimension to be found in any issue, political or scientific. I just want to get back to finding that, as that's what Genius has always been about. I don't intend to be anally zealous about quality control in this sense, I simply want to people to actually consider this when posting issues.

Here,

Moreover, there have been some recent general conversations in worldly that apply directly to the QRS philosophy

Apparently, none of them are worth moving into the main forum.

Since David and Dan wanted to kill the Worldly Matters forum, and perhaps shut down the whole board for 6 months, because of the general tone of the board - nothing worth the effort of them specifying or dealing with directly or on an individual basis - then a rational person would assume that it was a lot of things in general that bothered them.

Dan then closed a thread because it had gone off topic, but in another thread indicated that it was okay for threads to go off topic unless they were certain threads from administration - which would be closed rather than dropped down into the main forum. So, by trial and error we have learned that it is not going off topic that bothers Dan.

If we are to assume that David and Dan are examples of masculinity, then it appears that men would rather use their power (in this case, administrative power) to push other people around rather than using words to instruct. It is said "women create life, men destroy it" - and Genius Forum had taken on a life of its own. Since this is a board dedicated to masculinity, that life had to be killed. What I'd noticed about the board in the last few months was that people were finally discussing things more often rather than the board being overrun with people taking pot-shots at each other. Perhaps that's what David and Dan miss - things were going too smoothly for them, and men prefer wild-west shootouts.

I believe the path to enlightenment includes open communication, not broad, sweeping, shutting down of communication.

[Unidian]

Give them a break. I think they are just tired of the place. It's their board, and I'm very skeptical of the idea that they are interested in having their character questioned by users who are disgruntled with their administrative decisions.

As an administrator of many boards over the years, I know how tiresome this broken-record complaining from users can be. If they want to close the whole place down and put Goatse on the front page, it's their call to make.

[RobertGreenSky]

As board owners go they're in fact pretty tolerant. Where is the poison, you ask? Not here, but let's face it, some of us don't come to Genius Forum to play nice and they don't have to be as generous with us as they have been.

[Carl G]

Since David and Dan wanted to kill the Worldly Matters forum, and perhaps shut down the whole board for 6 months, because of the general tone of the board - nothing worth the effort of them specifying or dealing with directly or on an individual basis - then a rational person would assume that it was a lot of things in general that bothered them.

And, I would prefer them to deal directly and specifically on an individual basis, as you say, but of course it is their board, and their energy. We're free to start our own if we like.

Dan then closed a thread because it had gone off topic, but in another thread indicated that it was okay for threads to go off topic unless they were certain threads from administration - which would be closed rather than dropped down into the main forum. So, by trial and error we have learned that it is not going off topic that bothers Dan.

This is twisted and therefore unfair. Dan explained in detail how the thread that was closed after going off topic was created specifically for one topic. And it was earmarked from the beginning as going to be short-lived.

If we are to assume that David and Dan are examples of masculinity, then it appears that men would rather use their power (in this case, administrative power) to push other people around rather than using words to instruct.

I don't recall them pushing people around.

It is said "women create life, men destroy it"- and Genius Forum had taken on a life of its own.

I disagree. I would say it was dying, to its purpose, and declining in vitality. It was being sapped by trolls and by gossip and non-sequiturial crap.

Since this is a board dedicated to masculinity, that life had to be killed.

This is nothing but a fanciful notion. Unless you mean life in parentheses, "life" as in tabloidal activity. The forum was taking on the lurid dimensions of a tabloid magazine.

What I'd noticed about the board in the last few months was that people were finally discussing things more often rather than the board being overrun with people taking pot-shots at each other.

The place was on a more or less weekly cycle of rising tides of insanity followed by an ebb in which a possibility for serious discussions arose, before being inundated by the ordinary once again. People were discussing things all right, but as Confucius said, "'Music, music,' it is not enough merely to mean bells and drums."

Perhaps that's what David and Dan miss - things were going too smoothly for them, and men prefer wild-west shootouts.

Really, I can't believe you believe this. For one thing, look around, it ain't what we got now. Quite the opposite.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Give them a break. I think they are just tired of the place. It's their board, and I'm very skeptical of the idea that they are interested in having their character questioned by users who are disgruntled with their administrative decisions.

As an administrator of many boards over the years, I know how tiresome this broken-record complaining from users can be. If they want to close the whole place down and put Goatse on the front page, it's their call to make.

If they are tired of the place, they can take a break. They have done so in the past. If they want to instruct someone on something, they should explain it to them - not just leave and expect people to guess, like David did, or shut down an entire forum because it's easier than separating out what are worthy threads and what are unworthy threads.

People complain when they still care. People don't bother when they don't care anymore. Yes, it is their board, but if they want people to come to it, they should have some consideration of the opinions of others. Then again, they were talking about shutting it down for 6 months, so maybe they don't want people to come to their board anymore.

Whatever.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

I don't recall them pushing people around.

Shutting down all the threads in worldly matters isn't pushing?

I would say it was dying, to its purpose, and declining in vitality. It was being sapped by trolls and by gossip and non-sequiturial crap.

I agree that there was a lot of nonsense going on, but there was a lot of good stuff as well - and it wasn't neatly drawn between the two forums.

of course it is their board, and their energy. We're free to start our own if we like.

I actually did that once, and for whatever reason, it didn't take off.

Yeah, you're right. Whatever it was that they did, they did end up with a board with a lot of members. None of my ideas have worked out, so maybe I should just shut up while the guys do whatever.

[Unidian]

If they just leave without doing anything to ensure quality control, the place will be a zoo within a week. Anarchy doesn't work, libertarianism doesn't work, and the idea that people can be left to their own devices with anything but a Mongolian cluster being the result is naive nonsense. It would have been irresponsible and thoughtless of them to just throw their hands up and jump ship, leaving it to sink. If they felt action had to be taken, then people should be glad they took it rather than leaving the lot of you alone to re-enact Lord of the Flies.

[Dan Rowden]

For the record, I did look over the threads in Worldly Matters with the intention of moving any that I thought warranted such. In the end I didn't find any that were current and on topic (i.e. any that hadn't degenerated into gossip and socialising and piffle) and met my standard for inclusion in the main forum, though I was and am slightly ambivalent about a couple. Anyway, subject matter that is relevant to the purpose of the board can be posted at any time. Worldly Matters was always a sideline, and one which was always on notice.

I believe the path to enlightenment includes open communication, not broad, sweeping, shutting down of communication.

Ok, let's openly discuss venereal disease and how to prevent it in dogs and cats.

[Unidian]

Stop getting "get frisky" with kitty. Abstinence is the best prevention.

[Carl G]

Ok, let's openly discuss venereal disease and how to prevent it in dogs and cats.

Oh boy, Dan, now you've done it. I'm betting several posters previously sidelined will leap in with this official trolling invite from the administrator.

[Dan Rowden]

Btw, this may not have been said for a while, so I'll say it here in this thread: I have no desire to change the world via political theories and notions about world peace and warless worlds and sundry cart before the horse formulations. If you want the world to improve you must first be a person that can improve it. i.e. you must first address your own lack of wisdom, your own ignorance; then and only then can you embark on these grand notions of world salvation (or even incremental improvement) without fear of error and bad karma creation. One of the problems that I've noticed in the way this place has functioned over the last few months is a slide into the pretense of believing that one is possessed of sufficient wisdom to embark on these pragmatic enterprises. Thus, we've seen the main forum fade and political and other sundry matters become the major force of discussion. I'm not trying to burst any specific personal bubbles here, but if you feel you are sufficiently possessed of wisdom for that, I have two questions:

1. Why haven't you snatched the pebble from the Genius hand and moved on?
2. Why do you think these socio-political ideas are the best way to improve the lot of things?

[Laird]

If you want the world to improve you must first be a person that can improve it. [...] One of the problems that I've noticed in the way this place has functioned over the last few months is a slide into the pretense of believing that one is possessed of sufficient wisdom to embark on these pragmatic enterprises.

You know that I don't subscribe to what I hold to be a fanciful notion: that of QRS-style enlightenment. In my opinion, all that's required to effect improvements to the world is a reasonable degree of intelligence, creativity, knowledge and power. I possess the first two; these days practically limitless knowledge is available to anyone with an internet connection and/or a library card; power is the only area in which I am lacking, but other people (e.g. Sapius) can help to put me in touch with powerful people and then there's always networking and promotion of ideas e.g. getting political parties on board.

1. Why haven't you snatched the pebble from the Genius hand and moved on?

I'm not exactly sure what this metaphor means. I guess that you're asking, "why are you still posting to GF rather than embarking on your own projects?" Personally it's because I've made this forum my home for the moment and I'm not ready to move on yet. I'm still meeting like-minded people here. Perhaps broadening my involvements is something that I should consider though, because it does seem that my approach differs markedly from that of many people here.

2. Why do you think these socio-political ideas are the best way to improve the lot of things?

I believe that, rather than a lack of philosophical wisdom, the primary problem with the world is improper distribution of resources and inequitable access to services and opportunities. I believe that given the right start, most people are sensible enough to make a good life for themselves that doesn't impinge on other people. Therefore under "opportunities" I include "a good family upbringing". These are socio-political issues.

I also think that most people don't want to assume a leadership position on socio-political matters, often because they simply don't have the time and energy after working, family and recreational life; they'd prefer to put their "money" behind someone who speaks for them. It's in my opinion therefore important that people who are interested in changing the world for the better and who have the time and energy for it get active and try to go about it, so that they can be supported by those who aren't so willing to assume (or who simply aren't capable of assuming) leadership positions. Now I'm not really sure how much energy I have free - I have some personal issues that I won't disclose to the forum - but I like at least exploring the possibility of being able to make a positive contribution to the world.

[divine focus]

In my view, selfishness is the key to solving all of the world's problems. This is not a selfishness involving paying no attention to anyone else in the world, but paying attention to yourself and not creating an importance of what anyone else does. All that matters is you and your direction. Nothing else is important at all. Other people are not helpless or hapless or in need of looking after in some way. The world is not your responsibility. In getting in touch with your direction of action and attention, you will realize that everyone has their own direction that they could be trusting. It is no big deal that they are not. You may assist them as an example within your own direction, but if they continue not trusing, that is their choice! You cannot say when it is time for anyone other than yourself to begin growing in awareness.

At the same time, only growing in awareness will make the world a better place. The root cause of all problems is a lack of awareness. YOU CANNOT FORCE AWARENESS!! You can only encourage it by becoming more aware, yourself. As you become more trusting of your direction, appropriate action will occur at the most opportune times to assist people, as you will be aware of the opportunities and the "need" of others being the pull of your direction. You will be aware of when people are asking for assistance and when your assistance is unwelcome, as they will be asking within energy. It doesn't matter what they are actually asking for verbally or objectively, as your direction will tell you if they truly desire help subjectively. Many times, people will involve themselves in situations that they are not comfortable in, but they do this intentionally subjectively. They may say objectively that they do not like where they are, but they do value the experience subjectively.

My advice to anyone will always be trust yourself above all else. And accept! Nothing is unacceptable! Pride and shame are not necessary.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

If they felt action had to be taken, then people should be glad they took it rather than leaving the lot of you alone to re-enact Lord of the Flies.

Spoken like a true left wing liberal. You may need to be taken care of by a paternalistic Uncle Sam, but a lot of us are grown-ups.

[Unidian]

Is that you, Sean Hannity?

Grown-ups, eh? Not bloody likely. I watch the news. I see what you "grown ups" are doing around the world.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Dan wrote:

1. Why haven't you snatched the pebble from the Genius hand and moved on?
2. Why do you think these socio-political ideas are the best way to improve the lot of things?

It isn't the best way to challenge people, but it is one way. Attachments are closely related to political philosophy in my opinion. For instance: France tends to be the most liberal society with the biggest government, and the most social programs. It is also the most sensual, decadent, unproductive, and stifling for scientific and technology innovation. A big brother government that babies people creates weak humans who are attached to many things. An extreme political philosophy can femininize the population to a certain degree so I believe it is one angle to play to challenge attachments.

One's attachment to a certain political ideology can reveal deeper attachments to other things. It is one way to bring them to the surface. However, stark absolute wisdom is the harshest form of truth, but not many can handle those types of arguments. So for GF to regenerate, I still maintain that some action should be taken to attract new members to the form, new members that are maybe seeking for deeper truths. Because I can understand the QRS discontent with the quality of the posts on the forum, but the answer doesn't lay in punishing existing members, the answer lies in the three of you getting together, and brainstorming a few different ways to attract new members.

If I was an admin at GF, I would treat your collaborations similar to how business associates interact - by asking questions like - what is the most rigorous and effective way to meet our objective, which is to spread wisdom to the elite minority of seekers out there that are looking for it? How can we accomplish this goal? Should we expand our presence on the internet to connect to other intellectual outlets where young males meet to debate many issues? Should we make ourselves easier to find? How can we do that?

[brokenhead]

Ryan brings up some good points here, Dan. Has there ever been a thread exploring how members discover GF?

[brokenhead]

For me, personally, I value the forum because, unlike others, the members are not all dim-wits. I first came here after using one of Kevin's programs, I think it was Disk Investigator, which BTW is very handy.

[Dan Rowden]

We've previously discussed what brings people to GF, but more from the point of view of gaining data from which to do advertising profiles. And yes, Ryan makes some interesting points which I'll speak to when I get a chance.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

For the record, I did look over the threads in Worldly Matters with the intention of moving any that I thought warranted such. In the end I didn't find any that were current and on topic (i.e. any that hadn't degenerated into gossip and socialising and piffle) and met my standard for inclusion in the main forum, though I was and am slightly ambivalent about a couple.

Okay, fair enough.

[Sapius]

.
Dan, I almost missed this thread, but am glad I didn’t. I feel obliged to respond since I did contribute, I think… let me see… a significant portion of 8.37 % which I think includes other sub-forums I take it, since 91.63 % (as it stands now shows in the main forum), to the thread you mention which especially seems to be the last straw that sunk you boat. I apologize to you and all. I do have the sense to recognize what is drivel and what is not, but hey! I don’t claim to be wise.

I have no desire to change the world via political theories and notions about world peace and warless worlds and sundry cart before the horse formulations.

Sure you don’t, I understand, and in fact you don’t really desire anything at all, that would be indulging in delusions.

If you want the world to improve you must first be a person that can improve it. i.e. you must first address your own lack of wisdom, your own ignorance; then and only then can you embark on these grand notions of world salvation (or even incremental improvement) without fear of error and bad karma creation.

Right. :D Now if you could point me to the one who will judge that and say… (in a heavenly voice)... "go my child, I pronounce you free of ignorance and lack of any wisdom…"; is it by any chance you or David? Or is there someone else you know of that I can go to?

One of the problems that I've noticed in the way this place has functioned over the last few months is a slide into the pretense of believing that one is possessed of sufficient wisdom to embark on these pragmatic enterprises.

Well, you can wait for ‘perfection’, but in the mean while don’t ever assume that ‘imperfect’ things as they may be, cannot or do not reflect perfection as it is.

Thus, we've seen the main forum fade and political and other sundry matters become the major force of discussion.

At least I don’t know what you are talking about, unless the participation of the hosts is utmost important in the main forum, and hence you have none other to blame but yourselves, for I have seen hosts posting is the “worldly matters” and not mentioning a word in the main forum for days. If you felt is was sliding, why didn’t you help pull it back together in time?

As for worldly matters, I have hardly ventured there and don’t know much about it since I suggested to open a “chit chat” corner over ten years and three forums ago to keep the main forum from hi’s and hello clutter, or discuss why ones cat sneezed twice this morning in a thread that others are discussing the Buddha. If you remember, in the very first forum that was just a single one, I opened a thread called ‘chit chat’, and suggested that all other issues be posted there if they did not relate to investigating the nature of consciousness, awareness, causality, A=A and the likes. So since that day, whatever you call that area, I don’t read much of it, and whatever I do read, does not bother me at all. Apparently it does bother the semi-ego-less ones on their way to their personal perfection. Bored I guess.

I'm not trying to burst any specific personal bubbles here…

O really? Please don’t apologize; BYW, you couldn’t even if you wanted to, for some may not have one. At least you show yours. I’m quite disappointed in seeing it though, but I know that my dissapointment wouldn’t bother you.

but if you feel you are sufficiently possessed of wisdom for that, I have two questions:
1. Why haven't you snatched the pebble from the Genius hand and moved on?

There or here… what is the difference really?

And may be others are here to make their own contribute since they see much work has to be done here too, or simply express their thoughts.

2. Why do you think these socio-political ideas are the best way to improve the lot of things?

Ah! Read that thread on ‘world without wars’ again, and if you don’t understand why, then it could only be the lack of your own understanding, or the unwillingness to accept the truth.

BTW, are you suggesting that all those who did participate in the “worldly matters” or the topics you feel belonged there, leave the forum? Or that they should strictly adhere to the rules and regulations of the forum and cleanup their act according to the intended purposes of the forums? You do have a right actually… so which is it?

[Dan Rowden]

Hey Sap,

If you want the world to improve you must first be a person that can improve it. i.e. you must first address your own lack of wisdom, your own ignorance; then and only then can you embark on these grand notions of world salvation (or even incremental improvement) without fear of error and bad karma creation.

Right. :D Now if you could point me to the one who will judge that and say… (in a heavenly voice)... "go my child, I pronounce you free of ignorance and lack of any wisdom…"; is it by any chance you or David? Or is there someone else you know of that I can go to?

That would be your own mind. It's up to the individual to make such judgements. That many aren't capable of doing so appropriately is just part of life.

One of the problems that I've noticed in the way this place has functioned over the last few months is a slide into the pretense of believing that one is possessed of sufficient wisdom to embark on these pragmatic enterprises.

Well, you can wait for ‘perfection’, but in the mean while don’t ever assume that ‘imperfect’ things as they may be, cannot or do not reflect perfection as it is.

No, one doesn't need to wait for perfection, but one does need to wait for wisdom.

Thus, we've seen the main forum fade and political and other sundry matters become the major force of discussion.

At least I don’t know what you are talking about, unless the participation of the hosts is utmost important in the main forum, and hence you have none other to blame but yourselves, for I have seen hosts posting is the “worldly matters” and not mentioning a word in the main forum for days. If you felt is was sliding, why didn’t you help pull it back together in time?

It shouldn't be up to the "hosts" to keep people focused, Sap. Are they children? Much of my posting in Worldly Matters took the form of either attempting to raise the discussional bar or chiding and mocking. For some reason, people either don't notice when that was happening or didn't care. Anyway, this is getting too close to me justifying the decision to close that forum down for a while. I have no intention of walking that road.

As for worldly matters, I have hardly ventured there and don’t know much about it since I suggested to open a “chit chat” corner over ten years and three forums ago to keep the main forum from hi’s and hello clutter, or discuss why ones cat sneezed twice this morning in a thread that others are discussing the Buddha. If you remember, in the very first forum that was just a single one, I opened a thread called ‘chit chat’, and suggested that all other issues be posted there if they did not relate to investigating the nature of consciousness, awareness, causality, A=A and the likes. So since that day, whatever you call that area, I don’t read much of it, and whatever I do read, does not bother me at all. Apparently it does bother the semi-ego-less ones on their way to their personal perfection. Bored I guess.

It bothers me when it becomes a distraction and a temptation, much like a woman is to a spiritual man - you start off thinking there's legitimate reasons for talking to her, but pretty soon you don't have any control over anything you do and you find yourself thinking about whether the wallpaper is bad for your emotional state rather than whether your emotional state is bad for your soul. But the issue of quality and focus of discussion is wider than just that forum. The whole place was going to pot if you ask me. Closing Worldly Matters is a wake up call. People are free to ignore that, disagree with its necessity or take it seriously, as they please. This is just a discussion board, after all. It's not the Vatican.

I'm not trying to burst any specific personal bubbles here…

O really? Please don’t apologize; BYW, you couldn’t even if you wanted to, for some may not have one. At least you show yours. I’m quite disappointed in seeing it though, but I know that my dissapointment wouldn’t bother you.

It doesn't bother me because I don't even get it. There are people here who undoubtedly have a political agenda they feel derives from something akin to wisdom. They need to revise their judgement.

but if you feel you are sufficiently possessed of wisdom for that, I have two questions:
1. Why haven't you snatched the pebble from the Genius hand and moved on?

There or here… what is the difference really?

Because the world is out there, Sap. This is a quiet little place where people contemplate the nature of that world, and themselves. If they should decide that what they want to do with their understanding is help others with that contemplation, then, sure, here would be a place to do it.

And may be others are here to make their own contribute since they see much work has to be done here too, or simply express their thoughts.

Agreed.

2. Why do you think these socio-political ideas are the best way to improve the lot of things?

Ah! Read that thread on ‘world without wars’ again, and if you don’t understand why, then it could only be the lack of your own understanding, or the unwillingness to accept the truth.

The premise of that thread was simplistic, naive and ultimately foolish

BTW, are you suggesting that all those who did participate in the “worldly matters” or the topics you feel belonged there, leave the forum?

Well, no, of course not! Why would you think that? There are some posters who I'd like to see ply their trade elsewhere if they don't feel they can engage the real intention of the board, but then if they have no interest in that you have to wonder why they're posting here at all. However, if they feel they can then they're as welcome as ever to jump into things.

[Sapius]

I hope this gives you a better opportunity to clarify your position further, Dan, although you don't really need to.

I’m not saying that this should influence your decision on ‘worldly matters’, just that I see another option.

Given this…

That would be your own mind. It's up to the individual to make such judgements.

This…

No, one doesn't need to wait for perfection, but one does need to wait for wisdom.

…seems inconstant, because one cannot really tell the level of anothers “wisdom” unless one projects ones own values. And ultimately, how rational or logical is that? One could never ever make a judgement unless ones values are involved, and how inherently valuable are ones own values? I wouldn’t care less if earth simply shattered, but at the same time I cannot ignore existence that I’m part of, as a conscious being.

It shouldn't be up to the "hosts" to keep people focused, Sap. Are they children?

Agreed, but who is it that that doesn’t have a “child” in him any ways? We all indulge in “imaginations” and moments of relaxation; one can’t help it since existence is inherently dynamic, but what course one takes is up to a particular Self, be it even the lure of pursuing “truth”. After all, what real difference does that make to another except to a lone Self, unless one desires that others should follow suite by accepting the same values. One cannot escape ‘desires’ too.

It bothers me when it becomes a distraction and a temptation, much like a woman is to a spiritual man - you start off thinking there's legitimate reasons for talking to her, but pretty soon you don't have any control over anything you do and you find yourself thinking about whether the wallpaper is bad for your emotional state rather than whether your emotional state is bad for your soul.

I understand, but what’s wrong with talking to “her”, as long as one has ones own emotions under control? The “wall paper”, in other words, All the “distractions” mean nothing unless one allows them to distract ones self. It is really within ones Self rather than “out there”. After years of professing the “illusory” side of existence, and the likes, if one cannot actually accept that, then what exactly has one achieved?

But the issue of quality and focus of discussion is wider than just that forum. The whole place was going to pot if you ask me. Closing Worldly Matters is a wake up call. People are free to ignore that, disagree with its necessity or take it seriously, as they please. This is just a discussion board, after all. It's not the Vatican.

Well, I agree, but even certain “worldly threads” raise questions that reflect the mentality of the masses, and what better way than to point out inconsistencies if there are any, and get one start thinking on ones own? I’m sure there are many who read but do not post out of the fear of being ridiculed. If one wants to engage with only the like minded, or somewhat “wise” in ones eyes, then one could always open up a members only section, where only selected members who have proved their worth would have access to post there, but all can read. Nothing essentially ‘elitist’ about it, simply that you allow certain people into your drawing room, and they can also post in other areas.

Because the world is out there, Sap. This is a quiet little place where people contemplate the nature of that world, and themselves. If they should decide that what they want to do with their understanding is help others with that contemplation, then, sure, here would be a place to do it.

Consider the above option then.

The premise of that thread was simplistic, naive and ultimately foolish.

They need to revise their judgement.

Fair enough, but you still don’t know from which perspective another operates, and you could only present your opinion and your arguments for or against it, so tell us. I did not see you did much of that in that thread. Simply saying its foolish is not enough, and neither can you force your reasoning onto others.

There are some posters who I'd like to see ply their trade elsewhere if they don't feel they can engage the real intention of the board, but then if they have no interest in that you have to wonder why they're posting here at all. However, if they feel they can then they're as welcome as ever to jump into things.

Let me tell you one thing; MOST of whom are quite regular here, are NOT fools and think for themselves, however, this is your place and you dictate the rules, so stop being so vague in drawing the line, (or does that bother you?), and take my ‘drawing room’ suggestion seriously. In that, you would not be banning anyone unless you reason one is not even worth entering your porch, which is essentially open to all. One could always revoke ones access to the ‘drawing room’ too, but leave the porch open if they so wish to continue.

In any case, I believe you don’t give a shit, so why not go for it?

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

1. Why haven't you snatched the pebble from the Genius hand and moved on?

Who is to say that we have not, but also return to keep sharp? The posters here coached me into being able to express myself much more clearly. I took an extended break from here, and came back with decreased communication skills.

Even professional athletes do better if they practice between games. Do you think that philosophers are immune from decay without feedback? If so, I suggest you have another look at Kevin's explanation of the donation button.

2. Why do you think these socio-political ideas are the best way to improve the lot of things?

The best improvement would be from a comprehensive answer, including improved socio-political ideas. Or do you think that there is no need to improve on the currently implemented socio-political ideas?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

It is said "women create life, men destroy it" - and Genius Forum had taken on a life of its own. Since this is a board dedicated to masculinity, that life had to be killed.

I'd say: "Woman create and destroy life. Men is all what happens in between".

A more fitting saying would perhaps be: "Men create message boards, Women attempt to destroy them".

I believe the path to enlightenment includes open communication, not broad, sweeping, shutting down of communication.

Open unlimited channels of transport and communication: the great destroyer of all ages!