Why I know no one is enlightened here

sky · Post by **sky** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:12 pm

somehow it sounds like music theory or math

Steven Coyle · Post by **Steven Coyle** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:18 pm

If you remove the "eye" from the eye to your left, that should fix the problem.

sky · Post by **sky** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:30 pm

music theory is no problem and the math is not exactly calculus

why would you think my statement revealed some predicament

brokenhead · Post by **brokenhead** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:07 pm

Sky wrote:

somehow it sounds like music theory or math

Physics, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

unwise · Post by **unwise** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:09 am

Same answer. A "god" is anything we choose to call a god - and the same goes for all those other things

Since we are making up everything as we go, I guess we could say the same thing about 'wisdom' 'enlightenment' 'truth' 'masculinity' etc. We make it all up. It's in the eye of the beholder. Subjective as 'god' 'demons' and 'magic.' All made up by the observer, and each observer sees something else.

This reminds me of the 'scripts' Frank used to talk about. What happened to Frank? He amused me.

Steven Coyle · Post by **Steven Coyle** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:11 am

sky wrote:music theory is no problem and the math is not exactly calculus

why would you think my statement revealed some predicament

Neuron misfire.

My bad.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:53 am

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:03 am

Sky

the bodhisattva who does not abandon suffering sentient beings by taking refuge in their own enlightenment but serves to enlighten others

Yes, that is true for the Bodhisattva. But Bodhisattvas aren't enlightened. They're just like the rest of the suffering sentient beings.

you can't help but serve others by being enlightened but i think some do it unannounced others such as buddha himself declare themselves and teach

Who or what says that it's the sage's very nature to help others? Is it just a belief...or is it absolutely true?

Imagine what it'd be like to live without ever being fooled by the appearances of this world. What would cause you to then feel the need to help serve other people?

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:30 am

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:52 am

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:06 am

It would be the most rewarding thing for you to do, if you answered these questions with a yes or no...

for every being that realizes enlightenement all of existence is enriched

isn't that obvious

Is "enriched" a term unenlightened people use?
Is "enriched" like beauty, as it's in the eye of the beholder?
Are you enlightened?
Is it possible to know, when you're unenlightened, whether or not enlightenment enriches existence?
Is it fair to enlightened ones, to use our own unenlightened terms to describe their state?
Is it possible, at all, for enlightenment to not enrich your existence?

buddha taught

so what does that say about why an enlightened being would chose to be of service

he knows

Is it possible for an enlightened person not to teach?
Is it possible that Buddha wasn't actually enlightened?
Isn't it true that there are a lot of different people in the world, that some choose to do one thing while others choose to do the complete opposite?
Are all enlightened people the same? How do you know this?
If some enlightened people are different than other enlightened people, then is it still true that enlightenment brings an overwhelming sense of compassion?
Is it actually compassionate to teach others about enlightenment?

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:23 am

I Ching Hexagram 18

Nine at the top means:
He does not serve kings and princes,
Sets himself higher goals.

Not every man has an obligation to mingle in the affairs of the world. There are some who are developed to such a degree that they are justified in letting the world go its own way and refusing to enter public life with a view to reforming it. But this does not imply a right to remain idle or to sit back and merely criticize. Such withdrawal is justified only when we strive to realize in ourselves the higher aims of mankind. For although the sage remains distant from the turmoil of daily life, he creates incomparable human values for the future.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:39 am

scott

It would be the most rewarding thing for you to do, if you answered these questions with a yes or no...

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:42 am

Okay...I see.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:44 am

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:41 am

sschaula wrote: Is "enriched" a term unenlightened people use?
Is "enriched" like beauty, as it's in the eye of the beholder?

yes, no

Enriched just means that something has been added. It can be used to describe white bread, life, or plutonium, amongst other things. Those who say "enriched white bread" are probably not enlightened, as all that the bread is enriched with is some of the stuff that was taken out of it to make it white rather than whole wheat.

"Enriched" is in the dictionary, Scott. Perhaps if you used a dictionary more often, you would not feel like people were talking over your head so often. - note - this is a continuation of the exchange of barbs as part of the duel of words that Scott instigated and seems to enjoy. Just returning the clarification of the position Scott :) :) and yes, the multi-colored smiley faces were placed in specifically as a "girly" gesture to annoy you, as a part of this volley. Are you still having fun?

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:53 am

Elizabeth,

yes, no

I would have answered "yes, yes"...at least when it comes to whether life is enriched or not with enlightenment. The glass is always either "half full" or "half empty"...it's in the eye of the beholder.

Enriched just means that something has been added.

What is added to existence with enlightenment? If it's something subjective, like happiness, then it can be said that it's subjective....like beauty!

"Enriched" is in the dictionary, Scott. Perhaps if you used a dictionary more often, you would not feel like people were talking over your head so often.

Oh my, I am so stupid for not looking it up! My mama always told me to use that book..but I'm just so stubborn.

- note - this is a continuation of the exchange of barbs as part of the duel of words that Scott instigated and seems to enjoy.

I like how you try to make sure I'm not offended by your jokes. I'm only offended at how bad they are..not that they're about me.

:-P

Just returning the clarification of the position Scott :) :) and yes, the multi-colored smiley faces were placed in specifically as a "girly" gesture to annoy you, as a part of this volley. Are you still having fun?

OH yes, I'm having a blast! Thank you for the colored smilies! They really get me going. They appeal to my inner child.

Now on a more serious note - I like how you girls avoid directly answering questions. Is it hard to say "oh, I was wrong"? I thought the ego of females was so small that they were capable of doing this easily...more so than men, with our big nasty egos.

It'd really impress me if you and Sky stayed on topic and were clear about things.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:53 pm

what value is there in impressing you or anyone

you assign questions like they were homework

so who are you socrates

am i to believe that following your thought is going to benefit me

if so why

now answer the questions yourself so we can all be edified

or anyone answer the questions

as for being 'wrong' you are certainly more disengenuous than i am

but somehow i don't see that as a wisdom indicator

Carl G · Post by **Carl G** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:11 pm

sschaula wrote:
Who or what says that it's the sage's very nature to help others? Is it just a belief...or is it absolutely true?

Imagine what it'd be like to live without ever being fooled by the appearances of this world. What would cause you to then feel the need to help serve other people?

The sage helps others, and more specifically the world, simply by being a sage. It is not necessary for the sage to "feel the need" to serve.

Direct teaching is another matter. It depends on temperament and circumstances.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:47 pm

thank you carl

those are my thoughts exactly but apparently i did not express them well

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:04 pm

what value is there in impressing you or anyone

The point of answering the questions wasn't actually to impress me. That would be pointless. The point was to make things clear in your own mind...which is why I said it would be rewarding.

Chill out.

The sage helps others, and more specifically the world, simply by being a sage. It is not necessary for the sage to "feel the need" to serve.

In what way does the sage help others by being a sage? How did you come to know that a sage helps others by being a sage?

Carl, you're saying the same thing Sky said. What makes it any different or better when you say it?

How do you know it's TRUE? How do you know it's not just a belief you have?

Direct teaching is another matter. It depends on temperament and circumstances.

Which means what?

sky · Post by **sky** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:22 am

The point of answering the questions wasn't actually to impress me. That would be pointless. The point was to make things clear in your own mind...which is why I said it would be rewarding.

Chill out.

pointless exactly

and what you said was the 'most' rewarding

and how do questions created by you have the power to clear my mind

and i did chill i deleted all of my side of the convo and informed kevin so he could ban me if he wanted to

here is a question in your line of questioning

'do enlightened beings have a secret handshake'

ridiculous of course but how do you 'know'

there are greater minds here

i am done with you

you have neither the ability nor the pure intent to clarify anything for me in my opinion

and just because carl or anybody sees things as i do does not make them wrong

sky · Post by **sky** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:27 am

Carl, you're saying the same thing Sky said. What makes it any different or better when you say it?

oh this one is easy

because he is a male

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:40 am

Sky,

You've been right about one thing...

you have neither the ability nor the pure intent to clarify anything for me in my opinion

That's true. Only you can clarify things for yourself. I can't change your mind. It's your choice whether you want to be honest with me (and yourself) and answer the questions yourself. I don't care either way. The questions I asked you aren't "my" questions. They're everyone's questions. They're yours. They arise in your mind as well. It's up to you whether you want to pay attention to them (honesty) or not (dishonesty). The questions I asked aren't unique to me. Anyone would ask them if they wanted to know the truth about something.

It's fine that you're "done with me". Not like I wanted anything from you anyway...not like I expected anything from you. You're a bent out of shape chick on the internet...what do you have to offer me? Do you think I like getting attention from you? That I need it?

Why would I want to know someone who is so afraid of sexuality, that it makes them sick? There's something wrong with that. Why would I be attracted to that in a girl?

You can leave me alone. It doesn't scare me. I'm not heartbroken. I'm not even shocked at all.

This pseudo-strength that some females develop is really nuts to me. Walking around like you are the center of the universe. That attitude is easily broken down when it meets its match - someone who doesn't give a fuck.

I will respond if you have more to say...

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:51 am

sschaula wrote:Elizabeth,
It'd really impress me if you and Sky stayed on topic and were clear about things.

I'm sorry if multi-tasking is too difficult for you.

scott wrote:Is it hard to say "oh, I was wrong"?

No, when I'm wrong, I admit it. What is going over your head at the moment is that I am often right.

scott wrote:OH yes, I'm having a blast! Thank you for the colored smilies! They really get me going. They appeal to my inner child.

I'm glad you enjoyed this. I, however, am getting bored with the banter. Go on and play with the other little boys now, I'm going to start paying more attention to the grown-ups again.