More Pure Enlightened Words

[unwise]

I am not the doer, or the enjoyer. I do not act, nor am I acted upon. I am not the enlightened one, neither have I ever been ignorant or bound. I do not suffer. I have no opinions and do not feel for the sufferer. Neither do I have knowledge or information. I neither come nor go; I am here. I have no past and no future, I am the only being living now. I was not born nor will I die. I am in your world and not in your world. Your world displays itself to me alone. I am not the genius or the philosopher, neither do I do philosophy nor have I ever done it.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Unwise wrote:

I have no past and no future.

I remember you do have a past Unwise and it is prided on motorcycles, female tantric lovers and other exciting experiences.

Unwise wrote:

I do not suffer

Then why did you write this? What was the psychological motivation that caused you to write down these series of philosophical assertions? If you had absolutely no suffering then you wouldn’t even be motivated to write this statement in the first place.

Unwise wrote:

neither do I do philosophy nor have I ever done it.

What are you doing currently besides sharing a philosophy?

As soon as you attempt to say something that is true you are 'doing philosophy' unwise.

[Nick]

Unwise, if you're the only being living, Then who are you talking to?

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

It was a pretty description of the flavor of "enlightenment" touted here, and it could describe a moment of the larger version of enlightenment that I see. If we do not literally equate every portion of the statement to mean that I=unwise, then the statement could stand on its own.

[unwise]

What E.I. says is true. What is so difficult for everyone is that the enlightened man can and does speak for the Absolute Self in the first person when he chooses to. This is not to be confused with the character of 'unwise' who speaks the words from an ego.

Unwise the person lives in the relative world of relative truths and relative knowledge and relative facts. I suppose there are even absolute facts in the relative world just as there are absolute facts in a cartoon. Unwise, therefore, has a history, a birth, a death, suffering, opinions, laughter, knowledge, lovers, food, preferences etc. etc.

The guru is 'never accepted in his own country' as he appears to be like anyone else. Yet, he lives a dual life as the Absolute and 'sees it.' He knows it and IS IT. This makes him quite different from others who have no direct knowledge of the Cosmic Self. The guru can speak all night long in his own voice explicating the most ancient and highest doctrine based on his own personal experience. He no longer needs to consult any book.

It is a paradox and ultimate mystery for the onlooker how the guru can be both the free Cosmic Self and the bound weak human. This should provide a key for them. Instead, it is their own stumbling block.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Unwise wrote:

What E.I. says is true. What is so difficult for everyone is that the enlightened man can and does speak for the Absolute Self in the first person when he chooses to. This is not to be confused with the character of 'unwise' who speaks the words from an ego.

Why do you separate yourself into two pieces? On the one hand you are speaking through the absolute self and on the other hand you are speaking as unwise the character? There is no need for division here. Dualism is the sign of confusion, it is the sign of a perplexed mind that has divided itself into two pieces as a means to justify egotistical behavior.

Unwise wrote:

The guru is 'never accepted in his own country' as he appears to be like anyone else. Yet, he lives a dual life as the Absolute and 'sees it.' He knows it and IS IT.

There is no dual life, there is only one life. The cosmic self merges with ‘character’ and they form one undivided whole.

Unwise wrote:

This makes him quite different from others who have no direct knowledge of the Cosmic Self.

If enlightenment is a subjective state that cannot be experienced by the “you” How can this “you” have direct knowledge of this state and communicate it to another? All one can do is logically discern what prevents one from finding the state.

Unwise wrote:

It is a paradox and ultimate mystery for the onlooker how the guru can be both the free Cosmic Self and the bound weak human.

The closer he becomes aligned with the cosmic self, the closer he is to perfection therefore he is no longer a weak human being.

In other words, there is no experincing structure left that enjoys riding motorcycles, or having sex with female tantric lovers or chugging a pitcher of beer with the boys and then dancing to an Alan Jackson song.

I say that entire pleasure experiencing structure dies completely and then the Cosmic Self may merge with what is left of the individual's character. However there is no dualism at all. It is one presence.

[sky]

nick

Unwise, if you're the only being living, Then who are you talking to?

we are all talking to ourselves

actually i have a subversive theory that enlightenment is mostly if not entirely silent

[unwise]

Yes, enlightenment is entirely silent. The Self does not speak and has nothing to say. It is utter silence without even a single thought. But the guru seeks to communicate what he can. Always a failed attempt since it cannot be communicated accurately. There is only hints.

If enlightenment is a subjective state that cannot be experienced by the “you” How can this “you” have direct knowledge of this state and communicate it to another? All one can do is logically discern what prevents one from finding the state.

ryan, your viewpoint is typical and full of many common and popular errors. I can't even go into it. But where did I say that 'enlightenment is a subjective state that cannot be experienced by 'me?' It most certainly can be experienced by a person. A person may seek to express it out of wonder and joy, but always imperfectly since the state is beyond mind and words. A person never 'becomes' the Absolute as the Absolute is not in this world, does not speak, does not act, is not embodied, has no interest, sees no others etc. If it were possible for a person to actually 'become' the Absolute, he would no longer be here in any way, shape or form.

[Kevin Solway]

the state is beyond mind and words.

If words can describe or point to it then it can't be beyond words. And if a mind is aware of it then it can't be beyond mind either.

[Tharan]

Nemo/unwise, you are such a posturer. Copy/Pasting from some Hindu guru trash website is supposed to impress somebody?

This takes the cake for cowardice:

ryan, your viewpoint is typical and full of many common and popular errors. I can't even go into it.

Haha, too busy I presume. Enough time though to beat your chest a bit then escape, like you always do. You are a shining example of wasted potential. After all these years, you are still in the same spot.

But don't mistake my seemingly harsh tone here. I am smiling.

"It is when we STOP yelling at you that we don't care anymore, you lazy pukes!" - my old football coach

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sky wrote:

actually i have a subversive theory that enlightenment is mostly if not entirely silent

Sky if you’re going to boast and proudly posture yourself, you could at least pick a theory that makes sense; next time you steal an idea from somebody, pick something that is coherent.

It is ironic because you have criticized David Quinn for boasting and showing pride which is not true, but when in fact since you began posting here you have been guilty of investing pride and emotion into many of your oversimplified ideas and then you have actually flirted around with the idea of making money off them.

Do you realize that ideas belong to no one? You cannot take ownership over ideas.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

What is unfortunate about you Unwise is that you fail to actively engage when another philosopher questions your perspectives. This suggests that you do not even understand what you are posting and that you are merely regurgitating ‘Hindu Guru Trash Scriptures’ as Tharan points out.

Here is the contradiction:

Unwise wrote:

The guru can speak all night long in his own voice explicating the most ancient and highest doctrine based on his own personal experience.

And then Unwise wrote:

ryan, your viewpoint is typical and full of many common and popular errors. I can't even go into it.

Hmm, these two statements are at odds with each other. Why do you circumvent most of my questions here? What is the psychological motivation behind that?

Unwise wrote:

A person never 'becomes' the Absolute as the Absolute is not in this world, does not speak, does not act, is not embodied, has no interest, sees no others etc. If it were possible for a person to actually 'become' the Absolute, he would no longer be here in any way, shape or form.

I disagree; you sound like a new age flakey; stick to this world Unwise; Don’t concern yourself with other worlds. You use this theory to guarantee your own immortality, but in the mean time your life is worldly; meaning filled with petty pleasures, worldly friends and an overall incomplete understanding of human nature.

The true enlightened man is like an alien; he no longer relates to most human beings because his values are so radical; his entire being will not allow him to participate in the petty common enjoyments of worldly humans.

So as long as you do not possess these deep values and adequately transfer this understanding into your daily life then you will continue to lack credibility as a contributor of this forum.

Moreover you have already demonstrated this when you proudly posted a photo of yourself dressed in leather motorcycle attire like a woman boosting her beauty to her a man on their first date. Since that incident, you were always suspect to me.

Unless you radically change your values, then at best I will continue to see you as the childish woman-like posturer that you are.

[unwise]

Ryan, I don't really engage in discussion with you because you are too busy insulting me.

Tharan my good man, if anything I posted just then looks like something from a Hindu website, it is only because my words jibe with many ancient words written by other gurus. There is a good reason it sounds the same. I don't need to cut and paste, I just TALK.

If words can describe or point to it then it can't be beyond words. And if a mind is aware of it then it can't be beyond mind either.

The taste of peanut butter is beyond words. You cannot give the idea of peanut butter to a person who has never even tasted peanuts. Also, the mind (senses) may taste peanut butter, but it will not be able to fully analyze all the components or even be able to categorize the experience.

Why do I wear leather and talk about motorcycles? Because this world is not evil and living in it is what gods do on purpose. Plus it pleases me to injury your pious and hardened dogmatic sentiments.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Unwise wrote:

Ryan, I don't really engage in discussion with you because you are too busy insulting me.

If you were supremely wise then an insult should not bother you.

Unwise wrote:

Why do I wear leather and talk about motorcycles? Because this world is not evil and living in it is what gods do on purpose. Plus it pleases me to injury your pious and hardened dogmatic sentiments.

Gods are not of the world because they negate the entire world, the ones who do not negate the world are attached to it and therefore they say things such as the world is not evil to hide the fact that they are still bound to the earth by their own emotional attachments.

Unwise wrote:

The taste of peanut butter is beyond words. You cannot give the idea of peanut butter to a person who has never even tasted peanuts. Also, the mind (senses) may taste peanut butter, but it will not be able to fully analyze all the components or even be able to categorize the experience.

I’m suggesting that you have not tasted the peanut butter because there is still an aftertaste of beer in your mouth from the weekend.

Unwise wrote:

Plus it pleases me to injury your pious and hardened dogmatic sentiments.

I’m simply suggesting that an intense discipline and diligence is required in ones daily life. You have never emphasized this; actually you have done the complete opposite: you have stated silly statements such as the sage can be seen out on the city street corners giving sugary candy to children. Have you no understanding of what candy does to the body of a child? You cannot be that ignorant unwise…

You’re like a crossbreed between a rockstar-guru-hippie.

And these insults only serve to instill discontent into you because based on your past rantings on this forum it illustrates that you have no understanding of the subtlety of causality on this body.

The body is a temple and must be treated as such; Metaphorically you seem to believe that you can treat the body like an ashtray in the beer tent of a rock concert.

[unwise]

Gods are not of the world because they negate the entire world, the ones who do not negate the world are attached to it and therefore they say things such as the world is not evil to hide the fact that they are still bound to the earth by their own emotional attachments.

Jesus was 'not of this world' yet he drank wine, feasted, went to parties, ignored religious mores and MARRIED a woman and had children. They called him a wino and glutton and whoremonger. The 'religious' people of the day murdered him for his BLASPHEMY - he dared to call himself god despite the fact that he was very human. This was his 'crime.' And, they dealt with it as they ALWAYS do.

Many gurus, like Jesus, became self-realized at early ages. They do not vanish from the earth in a flash of light. They live lives to old age doing normal stuff like eating and building things, laughing, talking, having families, amusing themselves in various ways. To the enlightened man, the world is no longer a problem or something to be avoided or feared.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Unwise wrote:

Jesus was 'not of this world' yet he drank wine, feasted, went to parties, ignored religious mores and MARRIED a woman and had children. They called him a wino and glutton and whoremonger. The 'religious' people of the day murdered him for his BLASPHEMY - he dared to call himself god despite the fact that he was very human. This was his 'crime.' And, they dealt with it as they ALWAYS do.

All these things condition the mind and control your thought patterns in a negative way. Men become increasingly dull and stupid over the years by marrying a stupid woman because he has to compromise and adapt to her childish feeble mind. and considering that 99% of women are irrational and stupid, it is not worth the sages trouble to invest energy into her.

If you drink wine, you will be controlled by thoughts to drink more wine. The fun of the world enslaves the mind; if you had any sensitivity within your own mind you would know how dedicate the brain is as an instrument and you wouldn’t be trying to spread this ‘teenager party morality’ of yours.

You don’t realize how enslaved an individual becomes to the civilization when he marries and has children, the more awareness one has, the more sensitivity one has to the dangers of the world.

Getting married and having children in western civilization is a death sentence, you are automatically condemning yourself to lifetime of toil and misery. Also, doesnt the thought of coming home after a day of slavery to an irrational dishonest wife and bratty corrupted kids displease you?

The genius can spot the danger from a mile away.

Unwise, you’re values lack any profound understanding of how the world and people actually are, you possess a a very dreamy and cartoony philosophy, if people listened to your views they would end up with drug addictions, divorces, child support payments and injuries from slaving away doing some laborious task over and over for eight hours a day.

You're philosophy is: "Accept the world, and have fun"

My philosophy is: "Don't listen to a word Unwise says because you're life will end in tragedy, disapointment and delusion"

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Nemo/unwise, you are such a posturer. Copy/Pasting from some Hindu guru trash website is supposed to impress somebody?

Was unwise's original post copied from somewhere else?

[sky]

Sky if you’re going to boost and proudly posture yourself, you could at least pick a theory that makes sense; next time you steal an idea from somebody, pick something that is coherent.

It is ironic because you have criticized David Quinn for boosting and showing pride which is not true, but when in fact since you began posting here you have been guilty of investing pride and emotion into many of your oversimplified ideas and then you have actually flirted around with the idea of making money off them.

Do you realize that ideas belong to no one? You cannot take ownership over ideas.

from whom was this idea stolen

yes i know you cannot copyright an idea therefore you can't own it

but you can own an idea or an ideal in a different way

you can own it through conviction

flirted no way i am serious about selling ideas for money those that belong in the business world

that is what men do is it not so why not me

everything was an idea before manifestation

when i was studying music business when i realized that the knowledge and abilities i had pursued as pure vocation were worth money i was happy

because it gave me something i could do wanted to do and could connect me with others like me

musicians and music lovers

and support myself without leaving my hermit's cave except very rarely thanks to the internet

that i could take my thoughts some silly some deeply serious format them in my chosen medium of music and offer them to the world

a classmate walked up to me one day and asked to copy my notes

'for a price' says i

'you know you get more in life when you give freely'

'you are preaching to the choir but i am not taking music business to give it away'

'$20'

'done deal'

or do you think it would be more honest of me to get my teacher whose son is a world class violinist named alex kerr to introduce me to his friend joshua bell and attempt to use some la perla lingerie to seduce him to marry him and wear armani to carnegie hall there's temptation if ever there was temptation for someone like me he is young gorgeous genius violinist whose great love is at the moment a stradivarius oh yeah he is also rich but in his case his talent was his inheritance

http://www.joshuabell.com/


and just because my simplicity is incoherent to you does not mean universally incoherent to everybody on the planet or even here

from the i ching

22 hexagram

nine at the top

'simple grace, no blame'

'Here at the highest stage of development all ornament is discarded. Form no longer conceals content but brings out its value to the full. Perfect grace consists not in exterior ornamentation of the substance, but in the simple fitness of its form.'

mathematicians yearn for simple elegant proofs

so if my intuition causes me to suspect that enlightenment is more likely to be beautifully simple than not

can you prove me wrong

and if others have also thought this as i know they have over millenia is that evidence against

why does it say in the bible and coincidentally i was just coming to ask all ye y chromosome geniuses

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

sounds like a bid for simplicity to me

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sky wrote:

or do you think it would be more honest of me to get my teacher whose son is a world class violinist named alex kerr to introduce me to his friend joshua bell and attempt to use some la perla lingerie to seduce him to marry him and wear armani to carnegie hall there's temptation if ever there was temptation for someone like me he is young gorgeous genius violinist whose great love is at the moment a stradivarius oh yeah he is also rich but in his case his talent was his inheritance.

Based on your keen money sense and how much thought you’ve put into this idea, I’m sure our old pal Joshua isn’t in the clear yet.

Sky wrote:

and just because my simplicity is incoherent to you does not mean universally incoherent to everybody on the planet or even here

Sky, my point is that a statement as simple as what you have said has very little meaning in it because it is merely one sentence that tries to sum up everything. Obviously it is going to be an oversimplification that doesn’t make any sense.

[sky]

Based on your keen money sense and how much thought you’ve put into this idea, I’m sure our old pal Joshua isn’t in the clear yet.

based on my keen sense of hearing i leave it to the chance of the universe

one of the songs on his latest cd which are vocal arias not usually played on a violin is 'song to the moon' by dvorak

and lo and behold in my hand is the score with the words in english - it was not easy to find - i bought it last year

so if he comes my way through my music

i just might go for it

did you bother to listen to him

only inner beauty can create such aural beauty

btw you can hear his whole works on rhapsody and they will give you twenty five songs for free each month

http://www.rhapsody.com/

i would not marry for money

my price is above rubies

besides it is a lot more fun much more adventurous to make it myself now that i found out i can and what is more was taught how

is that your real issue ryan

that i think i am worth a lot

in many ways

and that life may choose to validate my worth

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sky wrote:

did you bother to listen to him
only inner beauty can create such aural beauty

It’s actually not that bad; music has to be fairly decent for me to enjoy it. I dont listen to very much music these days; only as a treat once and awhile, but I must say Joshua is a talented muscian.

Sky wrote:

is that your real issue ryan
that i think i am worth a lot
in many ways
and that life may choose to validate my worth

You’re a funny girl, I laughed out loud when I read this; Based on your personality and intellectual deposition I suspect you will validate your own worth on your own accord independent of what “life” wants for you.

[sky]

You’re a funny girl, I laughed out loud when I read this; Based on your personality and intellectual deposition I suspect you will validate your own worth on your own accord independent of what “life” wants for you.

that is impossible i am subject to the same cause and effect as anyone else

me funny

this is funny

you used the word deposition for disposition

deposition is when you are under oath to tell the truth whole truth and nothing but

ha ha

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sky wrote:

that is impossible i am subject to the same cause and effect as anyone else
me funny
this is funny
you used the word deposition for disposition
deposition is when you are under oath to tell the truth whole truth and nothing but
ha ha

Don’t laugh so loud yet my dear.
you're lazy, you forgot to read all the definitions of deposition.
Geologically speaking deposition also refers to: a process by which sediment is deposited somewhere whether it be sand, mud, clay, silt or quartz…

So metaphorically speaking, intellectual deposition from you can be thought of as a slow buildup of filthy murky sediment that blocks the entrance of a river and actually prevents stream water from spilling into the vast infinite ocean…

Now that’s funny…

Ryan 1
Sky 0

Ha ha.

[sky]

you mean quartz like in crystal pure crystal

besides you did not mean that when you typed deposition

admit it

or we could use this meanning

deposition - to remove from authority

which is probably the most accurate descrpition of my intellectual disposition

btw did you mean boost or boast in your earlier posts

[sky]

my dear

now you know i am currently pledged to the talented mr. bell

Ryan 1

Sky 0

still trying to score ryan :)

[Ryan Rudolph]

Sky wrote:

admit it

Okay okay, I admit it sky, you made a mistake and I forgive you… ; )

Sky wrote:

btw did you mean boost or boast in your earlier posts

You should be a poet:

You’re quite poignant in posing your prose.

Sky wrote:

still trying to score ryan :)

I don’t need to score anymore, causality constantly flatters me with a myriad of beautiful virgins and I simply choose whatever I am in the mood for at the time - yawn.

Sky wrote:

now you know i am currently pledged to the talented mr. Bell

you must be attracted to his musical genius are you? Because on his own the guy is rather feminine, I mean look at this dude:



Are you sure you’re not a lesbian sky? It’s alright to come out of the closet ya know, I won’t judge.