Enlightenment

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Kunga
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Kunga »

movingalways wrote:
Kunga wrote:
movingalways wrote: Why did you post that link?

Relax and read it...then you'll know :)
This is a discussion forum.

Yes, and the title of this thread is "Enlightenment", which is being discussed. Sometimes during discussions other forms of information (links relevant to the discussion), can be used. I thought the link was interesting and enlightening....especially what Buddha said after his Enlightenment experience.

He looked up at the sky and saw a star twinkling and he said, “Look, I am twinkling.”

Image



Carry on with your twerking....

:)
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The notion that baby Jesus is born from the side of Mary and Joseph constitutes flawed conception.
not that source is immaculate conception.

hint, hint
nudge, nudge
wink, wink
say no more
Pam Seeback
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Pam Seeback »

Diebert: The water as being something to cross, always changing, causes wariness and fear within the archetypal woman. She can only cross standing on someone else's shoulders (material provision) if she lets herself to be carried. The teaching about avoiding contact boils down to transcending being bothered by her necessity and see her as fleeting like the river itself. The woman as "something being carried". This is wise misogyny but it's hard to translate it in real situations and real people because the image of woman (or "opposite", anti-man) is a mirage, a passing perfume cloud which cannot even be "banned" or dealt with. She only fully exists in the symbolical realm.

This is personally significant to me. In 1989 I had a lucid dream that unfolded thusly: I (awareness only, no body) walked through a dense forest, I entered a house in a clearing, I walked past my parents sitting in a darkened room (we smiled and waved at each other), I walked into the bathroom where the mirror disappeared and two light beings appeared, I turned away from the light beings to face an open grave marked with my grandmother's maiden name, I then heard a voice say "turn around" and I found myself facing an ocean, the voice then said "you must cross to the other side" and the dream ended. I have always believed that voice to be the voice of wisdom.
Opposing a physical gender would as nonsensical as opposing an arms or a leg if people did not exist themselves already fully in such symbolical realm or "heaven". Only when getting to earth there's the 'wisdom of spirit' which indeed counters all former notions.
Apparently the voice knew what it was talking about. :-)
Passing the river itself or carrying her over it is the same "right" and spontaneous thing to do. One reaction, one flow, one determination without settling on any training or teaching. But it's the same teaching that brought the monks there is the first place, right to the point of crossing.
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Re: Nietzsche

Post by Leyla Shen »

L: The difference between a will to power and an idea is that the former necessarily constitutes the makings of a new value, compelled as it is by the material conditions (or forces, if you prefer) which bring it into existence, and the latter constitutes the powerlessness in (as Deleuze puts it) a plebeian attribution of established values.

Wisdom then is an active, subjective component in the creation of new values; in overcoming rather than obliteration, in undergoing rather than annihilation.

D: Will to power compelled by a special kind of idea? Even originated by conceptual matter? Will to power has little to do with discussing physics or the situational: the given
And even less to do with the death throes of its object, the passivity in drowning oneself in a sea of symbolism; the bliss in undergoing.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The dreaming mind is empty.
junk.
the voice is telling you to get up for a leak.
cross the ocean.
too much wine.
granny told you 'don't wet the bed'.
Last edited by Dennis Mahar on Sat May 10, 2014 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kunga
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Kunga »

Dennis Mahar wrote:The dreaming mind is empty.
junk.
the voice is telling you to get up for a leak.
cross the ocean.
too much wine.

Which would indicate that her mind was full ...needing to be emptied :) [voided] lol
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

All she talks about is causes/conditions like it was significant or something.
me me me me me
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Kunga
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Kunga »

Dennis Mahar wrote:All she talks about is causes/conditions like it was significant or something.
me me me me me

plebeian phobia
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Void that!
empty the mind
empty the bladder

The medics refer to a leak as voiding.
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

The mind is the void, dummy! It's always empty, even when afraid of being full.
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The mind is caused.
not that.
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Anyway Leyla, the conversation you have with Diebert breaks down to him calling you a woman and you calling him not a man.
Are you two married or exes?

Is it supposed to be meaningful?
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Speculation

Post by Leyla Shen »

The eye which cannot see what is looking
The ear which cannot hear what is listening
The nose which cannot inhale what is smelling
The tongue which cannot flavourise what is tasting
The hand which cannot touch what is feeling
The mind which cannot discern what is meaning
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Kunga
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MILAREPA

Post by Kunga »

The best seeing is the way of "nonseeing" --
the radiance of the mind itself.
The best prize is what cannot be looked for --
the priceless treasure of the mind itself.

The most nourishing food is "noneating" --
the transcendent food of samadhi.
The most thirst-quenching drink is "nondrinking" --
the nectar of heartfelt compassion.

Oh, this self-realizing awareness
is beyond words and description!
The mind is not the world of children,
nor is it that of logicians.

Attaining the truth of "nonattainment,"
you receive the highest initiation.
Perceiving the void of high and low,
you reach the sublime stage.

Approaching the truth of "nonmovement,"
you follow the supreme path.
Knowing the end of birth and death,
the ultimate purpose is fulfilled.

Seeing the emptiness of reason,
supreme logic is perfected.
When you know that great and small are groundless,
you have entered the highest gateway.

Comprehending beyond good and evil
opens the way to perfect skill.
Experiencing the dissolution of duality,
you embrace the highest view.

Observing the truth of "nonobservation"
opens the way to meditating.
Comprehending beyond "ought" and "oughtn't"
opens the way to perfect action.

When you realize the truth of "noneffort,"
you are approaching the highest fruition.
Ignorant are those who lack this truth:
arrogant teachers inflated by learning,
scholars bewitched by mere words,
and yogis seduced by prejudice.
For though they yearn for freedom,
they find only enslavement.
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Kunga
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Kunga »

The Profound Definitive Meaning

by Milarepa

English version by Marpa Translation Committee
Original Language Tibetan

For the mind that masters view the emptiness dawns
In the content seen not even an atom exists
A seer and seen refined until they're gone
This way of realizing view, it works quite well

When meditation is clear light river flow
There is no need to confine it to sessions and breaks
Meditator and object refined until they're gone
This heart bone of meditation, it beats quite well

When you're sure that conducts work is luminous light
And you're sure that interdependence is emptiness
A doer and deed refined until they're gone
This way of working with conduct, it works quite well

When biased thinking has vanished into space
No phony facades, eight dharmas, nor hopes and fears,
A keeper and kept refined until they're gone
This way of keeping samaya, it works quite well

When you've finally discovered your mind is dharmakaya
And you're really doing yourself and others good
A winner and won refined until they're gone
This way of winning results, it works quite well.
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Kunga
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Kunga »

Like the stars you see in the sky..
We are twinkling..
But not really there

The star died millions of years ago
all we see is the light, that
finally reached our eye consciousness
which is only a temporary thing..

Temporary things are temporal...impermanent
Only THE REAL is permanent...

What is THE REAL ?
Lets make a deal ?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »


Enlightenment discussions all over the web: always end drowning in a mess of childish poetry, speculation, gossip, mysterious oneliners and pretty pictures. It's the modern version of enlightement: over-production of signs and indifferentation. Those with eyes can see and look the other way.
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Kunga
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Kunga »

Those with eyes can see your arrogance.
TheImmanent
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by TheImmanent »

Kunga wrote:The Profound Definitive Meaning

by Milarepa

English version by Marpa Translation Committee
Original Language Tibetan

For the mind that masters view the emptiness dawns
In the content seen not even an atom exists
A seer and seen refined until they're gone
This way of realizing view, it works quite well

When meditation is clear light river flow
There is no need to confine it to sessions and breaks
Meditator and object refined until they're gone
This heart bone of meditation, it beats quite well

When you're sure that conducts work is luminous light
And you're sure that interdependence is emptiness
A doer and deed refined until they're gone
This way of working with conduct, it works quite well

When biased thinking has vanished into space
No phony facades, eight dharmas, nor hopes and fears,
A keeper and kept refined until they're gone
This way of keeping samaya, it works quite well

When you've finally discovered your mind is dharmakaya
And you're really doing yourself and others good
A winner and won refined until they're gone
This way of winning results, it works quite well.
A fine poem. The separation of the conceptual self is just an idea in the conceptual self. There is no other separation than this.
Kunga wrote:Like the stars you see in the sky..
We are twinkling..
But not really there

The star died millions of years ago
all we see is the light, that
finally reached our eye consciousness
which is only a temporary thing..

Temporary things are temporal...impermanent
Only THE REAL is permanent...

What is THE REAL ?
Lets make a deal ?
A definition is never destroyed, but it has its place among definitions, i.e., it remains defined timelessly, integral to all other definitions which make up time and space. With the idea of a private essence, which is the identification with one of these definitions, the question of what is real or permanent becomes relevant. But there is no private essence. That is a question which disappears along with the meditator.
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Cahoot
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Cahoot »

Those who see truly neither look away, nor blink (3a).
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

All that's being said is conceptualising mind is tool-being.
In order to for the sake of.
any concept discloses that functioning.

there seems to be a fuss about broken tools.

the question is
who is the cool tool with the cool conception for enrolment in to for the sake of what?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Kunga wrote:Those with eyes can see your arrogance.
Better to have eyes within as well as without.

This is arrogance: "when you know what Enlightenment is, then you can understand my statement" -- Kunga, May first.

But I'm all for arrogance. It's that defining moment when people stop being slave. Possibility for actual modesty comes way after that. Of course what normally is being called modesty is really flattery, political correctness, cowardliness or just plain pretense. Chinks in the fear and hate chain, picking cotton, singing songs.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

How is being slave to not-slave circumvented?
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Pam Seeback »

Someone saying the Buddha saw a twinkling star = not real. How one interprets twinkling star for themselves, me, me, me = real. Give me real any day.

Me, me, me is hidden in every post, but only those who love what is real - ME - can see it.
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Me me me is revealed in every post as condition.
as a basis for grounds.
believe me.
A plea bargain to enrol in me.
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