A World of Wisdom

[Nick]

Can anyone here imagine a society where everyone was either enlightened or at least knew the importance of truth and wisdom to some degree? I've googled the world "utopia" and found this website, http://users.erols.com/jonwill/ This person comes up with some very creative ideas as how to go about building a perfect world. He seems to think either "environmental mastery" through the use of nanotechnology or "mental mastery" through the use of chemicals and virtual reality machines would be the best way to do it. He also describes Etopia, I've copied it from the site on to here for you:

Chapter IX
Energy
"Beyond Utopia"

Humanity may discover a way to exist as pure energy, a form of pure thought. It is in this place beyond Utopia, Entopia, where the need for any restrictions becomes obsolete. This theoretical highest level of existence is beyond the scope of anything humans can currently experience. Such a state of being should allow for unlimited mental ability, where one would experience omnipotence. In such a state of existence, there are no boundaries of essence, and no restrictions on being. In such a pure state of being there are no problems, worries, or negative concerns. Such a state of being would be a type of ultimate content peaceful completeness. If humanity can reach such a state, it will have checkmated nature."

I belive he is speaking of enlightenment, and in that case maybe someone who is enlightened should have a chat with this man. He says at the end that it would be checkmating nature to reach this state, but shouldn't he be saying something else?

Either way these utopias that he has described all have to do with satisfying the ego if I am correct. I don't think this would work because the ego to me seems to be infinite in its desires, chaos would find its way into the picture some how.

[Kevin Solway]

"Humanity may discover a way to exist as pure energy, a form of pure thought."

What if that "pure thought" was pure lies, pure untruth? It wouldn't be a very pleasant world.

"It is in this place beyond Utopia, Entopia, where the need for any restrictions becomes obsolete."

There would be no restrictions to lies and untruth.

"In such a pure state of being there are no problems, worries, or negative concerns."

Why not? There would still be emotional desires, and the suffering that goes with them.

I belive he is speaking of enlightenment.

I don't believe he is, since his "utopia" doesn't seem to have anything to do with being truthful, and living truthfully.

He says at the end that it would be checkmating nature to reach this state, but shouldn't he be saying something else?

It is a delusion to think you can checkmate nature, since nature is infinitely more powerful than any being can ever be. Nature can wipe you out in an instant without any effort and without even noticing.

Either way these utopias that he has described all have to do with satisfying the ego if I am correct. I don't think this would work because the ego to me seems to be infinite in its desires, chaos would find its way into the picture some how.

Quite right. The very same egotistical patterns will be followed.

In any case, we don't really need new technology, since we can live in "pure thought" even now, provided we have a good enough imagination. The majority of people create virtually their entire lives inside their imaginations.

[sschaula]

It's enticing to believe people like that. They usually have really interesting things to say, which make little sense to you but you'll assume "well maybe they're right and I just have to see for myself!" Mostly it's a waste of time. If you want enlightenment just try to find the truth for yourself. Question things. If you want utopia then think of what your ideal world would be and try to create it. Don't seek utopia and enlightenment through liars, though.

[Nick]

It is a delusion to think you can checkmate nature, since nature is infinitely more powerful than any being can ever be. Nature can wipe you out in an instant without any effort and without even noticing.

Exactly, I was thinking even if we are all living our own utopias or etopias just the way we wanted to, nature could find endless ways to destroy us. Like sending a monster sized asteroid directly at Earth, or a supreme alien race could come enslave us all, and our Sun isn't going to last forever.

But aside from all that my original question still stands. Can anyone here describe what a society might be like if everyone were either enlightened or at least knew the importance of truth and wisdom to some extent?

Then if we got to that point, do you think that the human mind would start evolving in reaction to people focussing primarily on truth. It must be possible because the masculine mind is more adapted for wisdom than the feminine mind is. Would this only mean that we could reach enlightenment quicker or could people eventually be born enligthened?

[Jamesh]

In any case, we don't really need new technology, since we can live in "pure thought" even now

Yes we do. If you want truth to survive, then you must support technology, because in the end we will need technology to survive an asteroid strike or some other form of the universe upsetting our little apple cart.

Mind you the chances are more likely that technology will result in our destruction, but so be it. When it comes to evolution, as everything is caused, then we don't have a choice in this matter.

[Blair]

Can anyone here describe what a society might be like if everyone were either enlightened or at least knew the importance of truth and wisdom to some extent?

The human race would be extinct in a few decades. Procreation would cease.

And that would be absolutely fabulous.

[Nick]

The human race would be extinct in a few decades. Procreation would cease.

And that would be absolutely fabulous.

That still doesn't describe the society they would exist in though. You say procreation would stop once everyone were enlightened. To become enlightened takes a fully developed mind, correct? So people in their adolescence with underdeveloped minds, I'm sure, would still engage in sexual intercourse. With that said, what would this society be like?

In reference to my earlier post about children eventually being born enlightened, if it's possible. Then might procreation cease? I can't make this assumption since I am not enlightened. If this is true then you must be enlightened yourself, otherwise your guess is just as good as mine. I would think one who is enlightened doesn't feel obligated in any sorte of way to procreate. But might he have a logical reason to do so?

Keep in mind 100% of the human race must be enlightened for this to even be a question. Just one person who is not enlightened will probably give in to their sexual urges if given the chance to. Women also must be included to reach the point of 100% of enlightenment. So there's alot of time where some kind of society will exist up until this point. Can anyone paint me a picture?

[Kevin Solway]

Can anyone here describe what a society might be like if everyone were either enlightened or at least knew the importance of truth and wisdom to some extent?

Then if we got to that point, do you think that the human mind would start evolving in reaction to people focussing primarily on truth. It must be possible because the masculine mind is more adapted for wisdom than the feminine mind is. Would this only mean that we could reach enlightenment quicker or could people eventually be born enligthened?

It is unlikely that people will be born enlightened, since the brain is still in the process of formation. And people certainly wouldn't be enlightened at conception.

There is no guarantee that the developing young will choose to become enlightened, even if all the adults around them are enlightened. Though I think it would be more likely that they would seek enlightenment, since concepts like cause and effect, and the value of truth, would be taught at school.

If the enlightened population wanted the human race to survive, then they would ensure that reproduction took place somehow.

An enlightened world would be a world of intelligence, creativity, energy, fearlessness, and boldness. It would be a world reaching out to the universe to share its wealth.

[Sapius]

Kevin wrote,

An enlightened world would be a world of intelligence, creativity, energy, fearlessness, and boldness.

In such a world, would any of these attributes be realized in the absence of the opposite? Would these attributes even hold any meaning?

Nick, in my opinion, attaining enlightenment is not about being perfect, but understanding that everything is perfect as it is. There is no thing in Reality that is imperfect from an enlightened point of view. On the other hand....

Nick: I don't think this would work because the ego to me seems to be infinite in its desires, chaos would find its way into the picture some how.

....how very right.

[sevens]

OPENED THE BOOK!

Thank you.

[Kevin Solway]

Kevin wrote,

An enlightened world would be a world of intelligence, creativity, energy, fearlessness, and boldness.

In such a world, would any of these attributes be realized in the absence of the opposite?

There will always be things which lack these attributes.

Would these attributes even hold any meaning?

Even if all things in the Universe were intelligent, so long as there is an idea of a lack of intelligence, then the idea of intelligence would hold meaning.

[Nick]

Nick, in my opinion, attaining enlightenment is not about being perfect, but understanding that everything is perfect as it is. There is no thing in Reality that is imperfect from an enlightened point of view. On the other hand....

If everything is already perfect, then why does the sage bother to strive for perfection? If everything is already perfect...

[Sapius]

Nick,

If everything is already perfect, then why does the sage bother to strive for perfection?

Desire perhaps? Or may be he is caused to do so. But then again, all others are caused to whatever. May be on the way to his own perfection he will realize that all things are already perfect, only that he did not realize it earlier. Only the coming and going could be said to be "perfect", not that which comes and goes.