internalizing realization of the ultimate nature of reality

[otiosedodge]

Hi All,

The subject line is fairly self-explanatory. Is it just a question of brute force of analysis every time doubt comes up? I don't really buy into "practices" as such, like mindfulness or other types of meditation -- those seem to be just additional conceptualizing. Has anyone developed any strategies that they would like to share?

Otiose

[Kelly Jones]

When you become aware of doubts, or you become aware of engaging in "worldliness", just focus your mind back on what is true. Keep it simple.

At the risk of making it seem more complicated than it is, I'll say one thing more. As the coarser egotistical beliefs are abandoned, the deeper sorts of delusions will come out of hiding. Bring them to the surface of the mind, so they can be consciously altered, by again focussing on what is true.

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[otiosedodge]

Thanks Kelly!

[pointexter]

Its about rational surrender/acceptance to what is. l think this may have something to do with the dichotomous gender psychology used in this forum to explore a head space that helps one accept the infinite nature of ultimate reality. That is, force of reason = masculine, surrender/acceptance = feminine. Arbitrary, though useful, if such psychological frameworks do help or hinder thoughts about reality.

There's is nothing external to internalise. That assumes division or boundary. What is perceived as internal is a mere reflection/image of what is perceived as external. That image is derived from the conditional, the caused. The image making organ is caused, conditional. Thought is caused. It is conditional. To that extent its not separate from anything. This stuff gets paradoxical very quickly due to the apparent clash between dual and non-dual awareness. To wit, realise that there is nothing to realise. There is no internal nor external. Totality is All is One. Undivided.

[Kelly Jones]

Its about rational surrender/acceptance to what is. l think this may have something to do with the dichotomous gender psychology used in this forum to explore a head space that helps one accept the infinite nature of ultimate reality. That is, force of reason = masculine, surrender/acceptance = feminine. Arbitrary, though useful, if such psychological frameworks do help or hinder thoughts about reality.

It's not really arbitrary, though, is it? It isn't like we're pulling these frameworks out of thin air.

That is, force of reason = masculine, surrender/acceptance = feminine.

To obey reason is the ultimate surrender, and is the highest form of masculinity. But this form of the feminine has nothing to do with unconsciousness; it's actually arrived at through an ultra-masculine form, and is inaccessible to women.

There's is nothing external to internalise. That assumes division or boundary. What is perceived as internal is a mere reflection/image of what is perceived as external. That image is derived from the conditional, the caused. The image making organ is caused, conditional. Thought is caused. It is conditional. To that extent its not separate from anything. This stuff gets paradoxical very quickly due to the apparent clash between dual and non-dual awareness. To wit, realise that there is nothing to realise. There is no internal nor external. Totality is All is One. Undivided.

The realisation of emptiness is not the same as no realisation at all, though. It shouldn't be pretended that the understanding that there is no enlightenment is the same as the fool's arrogant claim that there is no enlightenment. There is actually an infinite gulf between the two.

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[otiosedodge]

I agree with Kelly here. It seems to me that Pointexter is talking on the ultimate level when he says that there is nothing external to internalize, while on the conventional level, one needs to examine the teachings, the proverbial finger pointing at the moon, and arrive at right understanding. Then, with time, the scaffolding can slowly be pulled off, though perhaps never completely. (Of course the scaffolding analogy only works on the conventional level.)

[pointexter]

Boundary or division is arbitrary. Out of 'emptiness.' Thought is the antithesis of emptiness. Realising it connotes occuppied by thought, thus not empty. Concepts of emptiness and realisation are both a pointing of thought at. Neither ultimately it. Thought cannot touch what it alludes to. Thought vainly attempts to touch itself. Thought can get one looking in that direction. Then it has to get out of the way. The gulf, as it were, is in the relation of one thought to another. Narrative. A reformulated mirror image of itself.

Ulimate is ALL there is and the only 'is-ness' that this pointing is looking at. The conventions, modes and paths through illusion are unique and cannot be taught. Modes or strategies of thought to step outside of thought cannot succeed. Thought cannot be used to escape thought. There's no thing to learn in that sense. There are no levels. Levels = boundary. Thought. Where Illusion dwells.

l am only interested in the ultimate. That manner of expression itself is wrought with paradox and irony. Such is the nature of pointed discussion. Projected thoughts. Conventions, levels, paths, ways and means are impractical. They are obstacles. Self validating/perpetuating/reinforcing. There is nothing to change, nor teach, nobody to influence nor direct. By posting and reading a discussion forum, l am doing that very thing that binds me in illusion. Such is its nature. Other and self are mutually reinforcing.

There is nothing to understand, nor teach, nothing to agree nor disagree. The trap of dialogue is to dwell in deluded renditions of illusion. There is nothing to change. Change is its own agent. Causes. Conditions. Thought thinks it has free agency. It is very satisfying for thought to affect the un-truth of being an originator of change.

Speaking speaks to the Speaker (self), through the illusion of Listener (other). Bouncing the mindful sounds that reflect thought off each other. Giving voice to interpretations. Reflected off and reflections of each other. Breathing life into other. Dwelling in and of illusion. Pretending.

[otiosedodge]

Hi Point,

So all that is essentially to say that we agree?