Thought

[jufa]

THOUGHTS

Dontquest states:

All that I see are thoughts, a whole lot of thoughts, circling each other, playing with each other and ego's challenging each other. Nothing pertaining to me or you is permanent. Whatever I say will be forgotten. Anything I experience will die with me. All that I do, will be of the earth from once it came. All who I touch will die with my touch on its skin. The proof of my physical existence will eventually succumb to the earth. The mere fact that we as humans take the time to think up words to write, to express what we have learned, the beliefs we either share or do not points right back to our ego's desire to be heard. As I am doing now. When my words are read and my thoughts challenged the conversation will end and history will continue to live and die, and when it is dead all that I have said will die with it. All that I have thought and shared will die too. The simple fact that I have recorded my thoughts and shared them is of the most pointless quests the ego will partake in, knowing that what has already been expressed and all that will be expressed after it is in vain, because it too will die. for those that have joined on my thought journey and appeased my ego's desire to be heard, understand it is wasted, the responses are rubble. Because when you are gone and I am gone our ego's are gone the words and thoughts will cease to exist. To seek "truth" is exceptionally ridiculous, we can not comprehend truth, to quote scriptures is only to share another ego's quest to be heard. For what is scripture but another mans words? Another mans beliefs? There is a lack of truth, to express any thought or belief of truth is nothing but thoughts. Every post or response to posts are chock full of thought, you are thinking of what to post, how to word it, and what to respond to others thoughts and words. To consider others words and thought and to respond in turn with our own thoughts and words. The delusion of the lack of thought, being, existence etc... is so apparent it is painful. Break down every point, question, word that is written here or anywhere else and see it for what it is. Thoughts and beliefs.

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jufa replies:

Individuality of thoughts does not die. Individuality of thinking does not dies. Individuality of anything a man/woman/child does cannot die when mother earth reclaims the thought skin which formed in her womb and became the outward flesh of the individual because everything is after its kind, and all thoughts seek that which is their level, sphere, realm dimension, degree, and thought form which gives them life to live and become an activity of living within that life. It is a truth, and a present truth the earth is alive. Thought never dies..

The realm of flesh is the eternality which moves the 'id', ego, and mind to project interpretations of that which it knows not. Thoughts are the recycled relativity which is the base for understanding relativity, but to the individual thinking the thought, they are the exactness of the touch which objectify the senses to see, hear, taste, and smell the subject of the earth matter because flesh is the matter of the earth. All thoughts of man's intellect can be found within the bound of the eternality of earth matter. This is the reason one can recall the suppose beginning and place this beginning on parchment for others such selves to relate to.

Thoughts are free and alive. Man was born into thoughts because of thoughts. The thoughts man think and accept in vain as personal his were free and alive before his introduction into earth matter. Those same thoughts he took upon himself as his own are still free and alive in the eternality of the matter of the earth.

The earth however is not the infinity of thought, only the eternality which keeps the thought of the invisible a metaphor. What is stupefying is that man lives in the invisibility of infinity because thought appear out of the invisibility into the invisibility of individual awareness. Man lives, and moves, and has his being in the infinity of thoughts, so it makes no difference what man thinks. What makes a difference is his elimination of the eternality of thoughts which formed the outer covering and shaped itself to be man's forms of the matter of the earth. Should man learned to take no thought as personal, and not succumbed to the thought body of the earth matter of recycled thoughts, he has not hide his light of thought under a bush. Instead he has let his light of thought shine as a beacon for one to see in hope and inspiration someone will find their path of infinity though the eternality of the human mind into the infinity of the invisible Thoughts which are the individual Spirit lives beyond the earth matter of human recycled thought.

All of life has meaning. If this was not true, then existence would not exist. Man does not comprehend this truth because he cannot, has not, and refused to look into the invisibility of himself.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Man does not comprehend this truth because he cannot, has not, and refused to look into the invisibility of himself.

It would sound more convincing if that block of text was at least slightly less visible. And this is not only about boldness.

[jufa]

Man does not comprehend this truth because he cannot, has not, and refused to look into the invisibility of himself.

It would sound more convincing if that block of text was at least slightly less visible. And this is not only about boldness.

Not attempting to convince anyone about anything. The statement[s] can be accepted or rejected according to ones comprehension.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tomhargen]

On a completely unrelated note (which can be taken to a separate thread if a conversation arises) why should I never give power to something that another believes to be the source of their strength?

[jufa]

On a completely unrelated note (which can be taken to a separate thread if a conversation arises) why should I never give power to something that another believes to be the source of their strength?

Re-read your question and ask yourself why would you give your power to someone else which is your strength of will? Why would you give your mind so someone to dominate and have control over you according to their will power, and not yours? And the questions and you will have your answer.

[Kelly Jones]

What if it strengthens them philosophically, and from what they communicate about it, you reason that it is true? Why shouldn't you give power (effect, conviction, more power to survive) to that? Why would you want to destroy it?

.

[jufa]

What if it strengthens them philosophically, and from what they communicate about it, you reason that it is true? Why shouldn't you give power (effect, conviction, more power to survive) to that? Why would you want to destroy it?

.

How can you break off a piece of 'what if' off from my statement when it is defined by my experience. This means coming from where I'm from in making this statement, what another has experience can never strengthen my experience philosophically for words are only pointers. Communication therefore is relative to each individuals outer objective visions, and inner subjective feelings, and cannot effect what I have already experience.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Anders Schlander]

if the source of their strength is *not* founded in delusion it wouldn't be bad to give 'power' to that. If it was a deluded thought, I would tend to agree with it, depending on different circumstances.

But secondly, there has been times where other people's communication, with words, yes words, have effected what I in turn have experienced, gaining way to a stronger philosophical experience. Words become words and meaning through consciousness. It does eventually take a person to make meaning out of them, but that doesn't mean words are useless, It just means that words are useless on their own, there is many other causes needed.

lastly, your past is always changing, because it is merely memories. Memories can look very different depending on how you begin remembering them, but experiences of the past are really figments of the moment, so i would argue, that even your past experience can change from communication, you can gain a differnet perspective on things in your memories.

[jufa]

if the source of their strength is *not* founded in delusion it wouldn't be bad to give 'power' to that. If it was a deluded thought, I would tend to agree with it, depending on different circumstances.

But secondly, there has been times where other people's communication, with words, yes words, have effected what I in turn have experienced, gaining way to a stronger philosophical experience. Words become words and meaning through consciousness. It does eventually take a person to make meaning out of them, but that doesn't mean words are useless, It just means that words are useless on their own, there is many other causes needed.

lastly, your past is always changing, because it is merely memories. Memories can look very different depending on how you begin remembering them, but experiences of the past are really figments of the moment, so i would argue, that even your past experience can change from communication, you can gain a differnet perspective on things in your memories.

Perhaps you did not see my above reply which asked How can anyone or anything break off my experience and make it theirs, and know the situation and circumstances which cause my conclusion?

Tell me in exactness how what you have experience been altered by words of another? i.e. how can an event of yesterday, or a moment ago be duplicated in actuality by words of this moment when the event can only be lived and experience in the individuals who experienced the event memory themselves?

Thus, other people's communication has not altered the event, only how the event is thought upon. Words therefore are useless in the sense they cannot paint a clear vision of that which was not made clear at the time of occurrence. If clarity had taken place at the time of the event, then one would need not to open the door of puzzles which has behind it 'if's, and's, but's, maybe's, or I think.' Statement would be made such as my signature which end at the period, or to the door operners manifest as a pointers but never a conclusion.

Never give power teo anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tomhargen]

Words therefore are useless in the sense they cannot paint a clear vision of that which was not made clear at the time of occurrence.

If every one of your experiences had complete clarity immediately following the event then truly you are a god among men.

What if you went through an experience ignorant of the cause? Say you are fired. Your boss says that he simply doesn't believe that you get enough work done. You, I would imagine, would be a little put out, especially if you had always done your job to the extent of your ability. You feel as though you have the event has clarity. You strive to internalize it and learn to make it a part of who you are. Then, two weeks later, your ex-co worker calls you and tells you that the only reason your boss fired you was because the higher ups were thinking of replacing him with you? Are words useless then? Do they not change that experience for you? What you must realize is that an experience is not just what physically happens to you. It is also what you think and feel at the time. And, as Anders said, the significance of an event to your present state of mind is only in the memory of said event. But take that one step further and it is the interaction of that memory with your current state of mind that decides how that event affects you. So is having new information two weeks later irrelevant? Do words truly have no effect on experiences?

if the source of their strength is *not* founded in delusion it wouldn't be bad to give 'power' to that.

I completely agree. I have friends who believe that their source of power is in one of their virtues. They believe that with their determination, their honesty, their creativity, or even their patience, they have the power to affect this world for the better. Tell me why I would not do everything I could to raise those people up? To attribute to their own search for truth? To do everything I can to let people with the power to do good flourish. I should arm them with truth, give them everything that I can and release them upon the world.

[Anders Schlander]

eh? the 1st paragraph isn't even something I wrote, as far as i know, that was Jufa.

[Anders Schlander]

if the source of their strength is *not* founded in delusion it wouldn't be bad to give 'power' to that. If it was a deluded thought, I would tend to agree with it, depending on different circumstances.

But secondly, there has been times where other people's communication, with words, yes words, have effected what I in turn have experienced, gaining way to a stronger philosophical experience. Words become words and meaning through consciousness. It does eventually take a person to make meaning out of them, but that doesn't mean words are useless, It just means that words are useless on their own, there is many other causes needed.

lastly, your past is always changing, because it is merely memories. Memories can look very different depending on how you begin remembering them, but experiences of the past are really figments of the moment, so i would argue, that even your past experience can change from communication, you can gain a differnet perspective on things in your memories.

Perhaps you did not see my above reply which asked How can anyone or anything break off my experience and make it theirs, and know the situation and circumstances which cause my conclusion?

Tell me in exactness how what you have experience been altered by words of another? i.e. how can an event of yesterday, or a moment ago be duplicated in actuality by words of this moment when the event can only be lived and experience in the individuals who experienced the event memory themselves?

Thus, other people's communication has not altered the event, only how the event is thought upon. Words therefore are useless in the sense they cannot paint a clear vision of that which was not made clear at the time of occurrence. If clarity had taken place at the time of the event, then one would need not to open the door of puzzles which has behind it 'if's, and's, but's, maybe's, or I think.' Statement would be made such as my signature which end at the period, or to the door operners manifest as a pointers but never a conclusion.

Certainly my experience seems to have been partly a product of the many things people have said and done. And written, through books, and the internet. Theres little doubt.

If you accept that your *past* memories are stored in the present, so that your memories are really just present, it also goes to show, that as you learn things, there will be new insights into old memories, and they won't feel the same. A 5 year old looks at his big brother differently than when he is 16.

Words are *just* meaning, and meaning takes on many forms, not just words, but it is certainly a big part of communication, and of the meaning in this world.

When you say "Thus, other people's communication has not altered the event, only how the event is thought upon", assuming this is a past event, the past event being thought of differently is identical to the event changing in appearance, so the event IS changed, the original event is just as impermenant as the new thought is...the original event isn't magically more real.

A memory can come to life with extreme clarity, even tho it was fuzzy when it occured, for example, because something 'happened' to fall into place. Is the original memory, that was once fuzzy, not then changed? Somethings change your perspective so radically, that an event will just never look the same again.


edit: wow, i should really read the previous post properly before responding, tomhargen came with pretty sufficient reply already, oh well. I forgot to read the first big paragraph.

[jufa]

Words therefore are useless in the sense they cannot paint a clear vision of that which was not made clear at the time of occurrence.

If every one of your experiences had complete clarity immediately following the event then truly you are a god among men.

What if you went through an experience ignorant of the cause? Say you are fired. Your boss says that he simply doesn't believe that you get enough work done. You, I would imagine, would be a little put out, especially if you had always done your job to the extent of your ability. You feel as though you have the event has clarity. You strive to internalize it and learn to make it a part of who you are. Then, two weeks later, your ex-co worker calls you and tells you that the only reason your boss fired you was because the higher ups were thinking of replacing him with you? Are words useless then? Do they not change that experience for you? What you must realize is that an experience is not just what physically happens to you. It is also what you think and feel at the time. And, as Anders said, the significance of an event to your present state of mind is only in the memory of said event. But take that one step further and it is the interaction of that memory with your current state of mind that decides how that event affects you. So is having new information two weeks later irrelevant? Do words truly have no effect on experiences?

if the source of their strength is *not* founded in delusion it wouldn't be bad to give 'power' to that.

I completely agree. I have friends who believe that their source of power is in one of their virtues. They believe that with their determination, their honesty, their creativity, or even their patience, they have the power to affect this world for the better. Tell me why I would not do everything I could to raise those people up? To attribute to their own search for truth? To do everything I can to let people with the power to do good flourish. I should arm them with truth, give them everything that I can and release them upon the world.

Myself, I just love it when someone jumps into a conversation having misunderstood what was stated, then proceeds to intepret that which is their vision of comprehension. I say this in demonstrating my position in the following

If every one of your experiences had complete clarity immediately following the event then truly you are a god among men. If every one of your experiences had complete clarity immediately following the event then truly you are a god among men.

This quote was in responsse to jufa's statement

Words therefore are useless in the sense they cannot paint a clear vision of that which was not made clear at the time of occurrence.

The statement is not talking about an individual's experience having complete clarity immediately, but word clarity from the speaker to the hearer in exactness of the experience of the speaker who is recalling it from the only moment he has ever live in in awareness to experiencing the event.

Your question of

What if you went through an experience ignorant of the cause? Say you are fired. Your boss says that he simply doesn't believe that you get enough work done. You,

is an assumptive of nothingingness which cannot be addressed because they have not occurred in memory to recall to make an object nor subject of the matter.

The Source of all power is not in any virtue. All power is in the invisible Words of His Power, which words that even you speak has no forms when spoken except in the mind of the projector and receiver, and each virtue projected and received follow program of interpreted personal thought.

p.s. Just love it when someone has lived my experience and can not tell me what I experience.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tomhargen]

The statement is not talking about an individual's experience having complete clarity immediately, but word clarity from the speaker to the hearer in exactness of the experience of the speaker who is recalling it from the only moment he has ever live in in awareness to experiencing the event.

Ah. I was looking at it as though words from another could not bring any more clarity to an experience that was already experienced. Which I disagree with and I guess is not a part of this conversation. What your saying is that you can never put to words something you have already experienced in such a way that it would be as though the listener had experienced it? So that the listener does not have the clarity of the one who experienced it? I believe that. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

All power is in the invisible Words of His Power

So is your point that one should never give power to what another believes is their source of strength if it is not that?

And I'm very sorry if i don't understand, all I ask is to help me understand. If I misunderstand you and state my own opinions based on that misunderstanding, I would very much appreciate being corrected.

[jufa]

The statement is not talking about an individual's experience having complete clarity immediately, but word clarity from the speaker to the hearer in exactness of the experience of the speaker who is recalling it from the only moment he has ever live in in awareness to experiencing the event.

Ah. I was looking at it as though words from another could not bring any more clarity to an experience that was already experienced. Which I disagree with and I guess is not a part of this conversation. What your saying is that you can never put to words something you have already experienced in such a way that it would be as though the listener had experienced it? So that the listener does not have the clarity of the one who experienced it? I believe that. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

All power is in the invisible Words of His Power

So is your point that one should never give power to what another believes is their source of strength if it is not that?

And I'm very sorry if i don't understand, all I ask is to help me understand. If I misunderstand you and state my own opinions based on that misunderstanding, I would very much appreciate being corrected.

An in harmory with your first observation.

I am saying one should never give their power to anyone or anything. The lesson of giving ones power to anything, or what another believes is their source of strength can be found in the reading the story of Samson and Delilah. There are many more stories of kind.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tomhargen]

I don't see how Samson relates to the discussion. Samson's hair was part of the Nazarite oath he took not to shave it. No man gave power to his hair, or his oath. It was a symbolic representation of how man can inadvertently disobey god. It is basically a Nazarite fable. Watch out who you trust kids, they might betray you.

[jufa]

Samson's hair had nothing to do with his giving his power to what Delilah believed was her source of power. Samson's power was in the secret he carried, once he surrendered that secred to Delilah, she destroyed his hope, inspiration, joy, and strength. Samson power was not in his hair, it was in his keeping his mouth shut.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Kelly Jones]

What if it strengthens them philosophically, and from what they communicate about it, you reason that it is true? Why shouldn't you give power (effect, conviction, more power to survive) to that? Why would you want to destroy it?

How can you break off a piece of 'what if' off from my statement when it is defined by my experience. This means coming from where I'm from in making this statement, what another has experience can never strengthen my experience philosophically for words are only pointers. Communication therefore is relative to each individuals outer objective visions, and inner subjective feelings, and cannot effect what I have already experience.

If you don't know what another person is experiencing, then your signature means - what exactly?

If your own interpretation of their words is your own experience, and you believe the interpretation is meaningful and helpful, then why would you want to destroy it?

.

[jufa]

Kelly Jones states:

If you don't know what another person is experiencing, then your signature means - what exactly?

If your own interpretation of their words is your own experience, and you believe the interpretation is meaningful and helpful, then why would you want to destroy it?

Would like to point out to you your question beginning with the word "if"

is an assumptive of nothingingness which cannot be addressed because they have not occurred in memory to recall to make an object nor subject of the matter.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tomhargen]

Yes Samson should have kept his mouth shut. But he never gave power to anyone else's source of power. I still don't see how it relates.

[jufa]

Yes Samson should have kept his mouth shut. But he never gave power to anyone else's source of power. I still don't see how it relates.

Allow me to give you the story behind the story. Samson was a man of lust, and the power of his lust was relinguished when he could not resist the purring inquire of Delilah concerning the source of his strength. It was his lust and greed for the affection of a woman which cause him to reveal the secret of his power of strength. When Samson revealed to Delilah the secret of his power he gave his power to what Delilah deemed to be the source of her power, the power of her body her ability to persuade him to do her will. When Samson told Delilah the secret of his power, immediately she took steps for his ensalvement. Samson was blinded, made a slave, and became as a working mule. Now when seeing this, the picture of Samson giving his power to Delilah stands out to me.

p.s. When one read supposed holy writing, the writing and revelations, and laws should be consider as man's psychological journey, for these writing tell of any and all situations, circumstances, and conditions man find himself envolve in today. Such writing will display all the plots of man, how they came about, what happens when they do come about, and how to be released form them. Such writing are not to be taken literal.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Talking Ass]

Jufa wrote: "p.s. When one read supposed holy writing, the writing and revelations, and laws should be consider as man's psychological journey, for these writing tell of any and all situations, circumstances, and conditions man find himself envolve in today. Such writing will display all the plots of man, how they came about, what happens when they do come about, and how to be released form them. Such writing are not to be taken literal."

Nice interpretation of Samson and Delilah. From my perspective I also understand all-too-well how a mule feels.

[Tomhargen]

Ah, so your point is to never give that which is your power, to another? Because in all reality, I see no issue with giving power to another's source of power who will use it well. Delilah was just a greedy bitch.

[Kelly Jones]

I asked: If you don't know what another person is experiencing, then your signature means - what exactly? If your own interpretation of their words is your own experience, and you believe the interpretation is meaningful and helpful, then why would you want to destroy it?

jufa: Would like to point out to you your question beginning with the word "if"

is an assumptive of nothingingness which cannot be addressed because they have not occurred in memory to recall to make an object nor subject of the matter.

Since you don't know what another person believes, or even if another person is conscious, then your signature doesn't make any sense. You can't give or take power away from what you don't even know exists. Rather, it's your own interpretation of what other people believe, which you are asserting as true or false.

There is no "other person". There is just your own consciousness, and whether you think your own ideas and interpretations are true and reliable, or not.

.

[jufa]

Never stated I knew the thinking of another, this is your interjection anew into the conversation. The takeover of this topic began by my stating you and no one else could know what my signature mean because words are only relative to each individuals understanding and comprehension.

I asked: If you don't know what another person is experiencing, then your signature means - what exactly? If your own interpretation of their words is your own experience, and you believe the interpretation is meaningful and helpful, then why would you want to destroy it?

jufa: Would like to point out to you your question beginning with the word "if"

is an assumptive of nothingingness which cannot be addressed because they have not occurred in memory to recall to make an object nor subject of the matter.

Since you don't know what another person believes, or even if another person is conscious, then your signature doesn't make any sense. You can't give or take power away from what you don't even know exists. Rather, it's your own interpretation of what other people believe, which you are asserting as true or false.

There is no "other person". There is just your own consciousness, and whether you think your own ideas and interpretations are true and reliable, or not.

.

My signature means exactly what you stated See the profile in read above.

I truly don't believe, I know and acknowledge my interpretation of the words within my signature are helpful and meaningful. To me only though because, to use your words

There is no "other person". There is just your own consciousness, and whether you think your own ideas and interpretations are true and reliable, or not.

There now, I answered, or rather you answered your own question in attempting to cause me to give to that which you believed was your source of power. Didn't happened did it? I kept my power to myself, and so that means I left you in the same position I found you. Is that good or bad, or it don't make sense?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa