On David Quinns' WOMAN EXPOSITION....

[guest_of_logic]

And I presume you comprehend the difference between meaningless and irrelevant quibbles and genuine points.

[Dan Rowden]

Oh, I do, but you seemingly do not. It is not about women. I can't make it any fucking plainer, you dumb mo fo!!

[guest_of_logic]

Call me a mo fo one more time and I'll... I'll... HEY! WHAT WAS THAT???

Seriously, Dan, you're tempting me to join the ranks of the swearing... erm... well, the swearers at any rate.

[Dan Rowden]

Well, fuck, why not. Better to swear than be naive :)

[guest_of_logic]

Why not? Because it offends my sensibilities (don't worry, I succumb to the guilty pleasure from time to time).

Better to be naive than to falsely believe in one's own profundity.

[Dan Rowden]

That's possibly true. Better still to be profound and be right.

[guest_of_logic]

Indeed. Yet who is qualified to judge their own profundity? As has been made amply plain to you, self-appraisals of that sort are not accepted too well in the broader community...

[Dan Rowden]

That is meaningless. Who but oneself can actually judge what one knows? If someone said to you that they don't believe you're in love, would you taken them seriously when you know that you are?

[guest_of_logic]

When it comes to knowledge of facts, judgements according to an objective standard are possible. Why should anyone believe that a subjectively interested individual is more aligned with that objective standard than a disinterested third party, assuming that that third party has access to the reasonings of the individual? We're not talking about the subjective qualia of romantic love, here - we're talking about independently verifiable knowledge.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

You call what Quinn has written Philosophy? I call it the ramblings of a mad-man ...i often wondered if he was even drunk while writing... Seriously...if you call his rant philosophy...is there a sub-category for philosophy ?

You quickly developed your expertise in only one day because you just wrote:

.....never had much intellectual discussion with people, etc....this is all new to me......i bought a bunch of books recently on Philosophers, Philosophy and logic....but haven't had time to read them yet

It seems truth is not one of your interests after all. You can barely write normal sentences, or are not taking time to read and write thoughtfully. The same it is with ones thoughts. Life is so much easier that way, I suppose.

Maybe Quinn should have named his exposition: CHILDREN. It wouldn't have made a real difference apart from the PTA suing him.

[Kunga]

sorry double posted...time ran out to delete

[Kunga]

Thanks for responding, Kunga. There are only two more quotes in my list - see what you make of these. The first is not particularly damning of women as a standalone statement, but I'm interested in your response as a woman anyhow; the second is ... well, you can see for yourself:

7. "If the whole of gender psychology could be summed up in one sentence, it would be this: men look to the future for their happiness, while women find it in the present."

8. "The only thing consistent in women is her lack of consistency. She can believe one thing today, its complete opposite tomorrow, and not bat an eyelid. How could she be doing wrong when she had succeeded each time in enjoying herself immensely?"

Now... I know that David (and QRS adherents in general) associate femininity with unconsciousness quite explicitly, so I'm also wondering how your reactions change when the words are changed from "woman"/"the feminine" to "the unconscious", and when other supporting words are changed appropriately. I'll do this for a couple of the quotes - please let us know what you think about these quotes after the changes have been made:

"An unconscious person is continually locked into fierce struggle with other people. It is easy to be fooled into thinking otherwise, that even unconscious people are above such petty activity, but if you look closely enough you will see it. Their one and only concern is status. Their one true happiness lies in being seen to be superior to other people. Marriage, children, houses, looks, clothes, lovers, ornaments, wealth, politics, social and artistic activities - these are just some of the things the unconscious person can call upon as visible signs of success in the great game of life."

"Unconscious people are purely the superficial, whose superficiality so skillfully persuades to the contrary. For they have no depth - there is not one bit, not one tiniest fraction, not even one slither of this fraction of anything other than the superficial."

[edit: excised some over-politeness - this is GF after all...]

IF THE WHOLE GENDER PSYCHOLOGY COULD BE SUMMED UP IN ONE SENTENCE, IT WOULD BE THIS : MEN LOOK TO THE FUTURE FOR THEIR HAPPINESS, WHILE WOMEN FIND IT IN THE PRESENT.


in my experience with men.. they are impatient...and want what they want when they want it !
Look at all the men sitting around watching sports all day...what are they doing for their future happiness ?
The only future happiness the football players care about is monetary.
If women only found their happiness in the present...then why are there so many women not presently happy ? LOL

again, a totally absurd statement.(including mine)




THE ONLY THING CONSISTENT IN WOMAN IS HER LACK OF CONSISTENCY. SHE CAN BELIVE ONE THING TODAY, IT'S COMPLETE OPPOSITE TOMORROW, AND NOT BAT AN EYELID. HOW COULD SHE BE DOING WRONG WHEN SHE HAD SUCCEEDED EACH TIME ENJOYING HERSELF IMMENSELY ?


He see's it as lack of consistency..but it's more like being FLEXIBLE. Not every day is the same. One needs to adjust to the circumstances.


For the other senarios (unconcious) i would use the word : INSECURE

Exception:


UNCONSCIOUS PEOPLE ARE PURELY THE SUPERFICIAL, WHOSE SUPERFICIALITY SO SKILLFULLY PERSUADES TO THE CONTRARY. FOR THEY HAVE NO DEPTH......


sometimes we judge people by their words...or by whatever....but when you really get to know people then you think otherwise....i think people are interesting....everyone has a story to tell about their lives and why they are the way they are...to judge someone as superficial only means your judgement of them is superficial .....


i know my rebuttals are far from interesting or intelligent...and that i may look like a moron to some....but i'm not here to impress with anything....i thought it was fun to get into this....i'm not a philosopher or a sage...and i enjoy learning from this experience never the less....thankyou _/\_

and thankyou dear guest_of_logic and Diebert for being so patient with me...and you too Dan....(but seriously Dan, lighten-up : ) a lot of what i say is to interject some humour )



Bombs Away !!!!!!

[Kunga]

You call what Quinn has written Philosophy? I call it the ramblings of a mad-man ...i often wondered if he was even drunk while writing... Seriously...if you call his rant philosophy...is there a sub-category for philosophy ?

You quickly developed your expertise in only one day because you just wrote:

.....never had much intellectual discussion with people, etc....this is all new to me......i bought a bunch of books recently on Philosophers, Philosophy and logic....but haven't had time to read them yet

It seems truth is not one of your interests after all. You can barely write normal sentences, or are not taking time to read and write thoughtfully. The same it is with ones thoughts. Life is so much easier that way, I suppose.

Maybe Quinn should have named his exposition: CHILDREN. It wouldn't have made a real difference apart from the PTA suing him.

That's not true....i have a lot of patience and i've been extremely busy....i have other people to care for...i don't have time to dote on myself whenever i feel like it or do whatever i please whenever i feel like it...like most of you guys that have the time ....i sit in a room on the computer where there is a lot of noise going on most of the time..i'm constantly asking people to "turn that down" ....it hurts when you tell me that truth is not one of my interests....you have no idea....

[sue hindmarsh]

Kunga, you have to be firmer with your mob. Do what I do. Tell them to leave you alone and to be quiet. Tell them that your thinking and questioning life is THE most important thing EVER! This will give them a good start on the way to examining life themselves, but most importantly, it will give you the space you need to think.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

in my experience with men.. they are impatient...and want what they want when they want it ! Look at all the men sitting around watching sports all day...what are they doing for their future happiness ?

Men are hooked by their desires, no excuse for that. They probably watch sport because they cannot go out and roam around a bit looking for action. But we were talking about women of course. They have different problems altogether and for some reason there's a lot of resistance in exploring it.

Take your time Kunga. It's more interesting to see one well thought out post in one week than five stream of consciousness reactions in one day. And indeed you do need to create mental space as well as physical space to think and contemplate. Until it becomes effortless you need to have some control over your environment - otherwise "flexibility" becomes dancing on the waves without aim.

[sue hindmarsh]

Diebert wrote:

Maybe Quinn should have named his exposition: CHILDREN. It wouldn't have made a real difference apart from the PTA suing him.

True, woman is a child. But like all children, the potential to grow away from childhood is always present; it's just that few ever do.

"Woman" though, is a more powerful term - as seen regularly here - it has a greater impact on people. It brings out people's hang-ups and yearnings.

[Kunga]

Kunga, you have to be firmer with your mob. Do what I do. Tell them to leave you alone and to be quiet. Tell them that your thinking and questioning life is THE most important thing EVER! This will give them a good start on the way to examining life themselves, but most importantly, it will give you the space you need to think.

They laugh at me, all men in this household...even the cat. The absolute truth to them is rap/videos games/tv/sports/porn/food

the past few years i've been obsessed with leaving & wanting to be alone.
even dropping out of society and being homeless.

but i'm losing my piss & vinegar
i've struggled enough in my life

last night i escaped to another town & house (i'm house-sitting for a week) it's been so peaceful and quiet that's when i'm happiest it's easy for me to lose track of time (here or there) i hate to hurry..


Just for fun i'll do it though ...what you said..just to see their response ...lol

i know they will just laugh and make fun of me.

[sue hindmarsh]

Kunga wrote:

in my experience with men.. they are impatient...and want what they want when they want it ! Look at all the men sitting around watching sports all day...what are they doing for their future happiness ?

A lot, actually! Though it doesn't look like it to watch them with their bottoms glued to the sofa and their eyes fixed to the TV screen. It looks like they are just wasting the day away. But they’re not. They’re keeping alive that part of the masculine mind that strives for perfection. It’s all about respect for striving towards the highest: expert players playing games that depend on high levels of expertise. It can be anything from chess to boxing. And, oh yes - it has to have men playing, not women – unless those women are at the very top of their game.

It may sound like a kooky way towards spiritual enlightenment, but it is part of the ground work.

[Carl G]

They laugh at me, all men in this household...even the cat. The absolute truth to them is rap/videos games/tv/sports/porn/food

i know they will just laugh and make fun of me.

Those rednecks are 'women'. Get it?

Good luck.

[sue hindmarsh]

From Exposition:
"Woman is purely the superficial, whose superficiality so skillfully persuades to the contrary. For she has no depth--there is not one bit, not one tiniest fraction, not even one slither of this fraction of anything other than the superficial."

Kunga: ...his repulsive views prevent him from truely knowing a woman deeply because he is afraid of her...

guest of logic: He is highly likely to reject the notion that a (mere illogical, superficial) woman has anything to contribute that might rebut him. This is his bias through which he wards off any challenge from woman.

Come on Kunga and guest! Less gossip - more retorts!

You both can't be suggesting that Quinn’s Exposition is just a knee-jerk reaction. That he has some "problem" with women!?

It's like you're saying if he loved women he’d understand them as open-minded, happy, tolerant, caring, sensitive to others, and cooperative beings.

But he already knows that about her:

"She strives to make everyone like herself - open-minded, happy, tolerant, caring, sensitive to others, cooperative"

But he also sees the deeper consequences of this behaviour. He’s gone beyond all love and hate of woman so that he could find her true nature. And what he found was that her need to gel with everything and everyone left her - "a non-entity".

Your cry for Quinn to stop philosophizing about the nature of women and just love her, would be of what use? He’d just become part of the glutinous mass that includes most of the population. What good would that do? His “Exposition” shows he is at least interested in the future of woman, instead of just adding himself to her number.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

They laugh at me, all men in this household...even the cat. The absolute truth to them is rap/videos games/tv/sports/porn/food

the past few years i've been obsessed with leaving & wanting to be alone.

So if I understand you correctly, you sacrifice any personal happiness and goals because you feel responsible for the happiness for the men around you who you say are mostly wasting their precious energy on rap/videos/games/tv/sports/porn/food and do not invest anything in your happiness?

But still you think all David Quinn needs is such a "successful" relationship to cure him of his "hate". Or do you think he has to sacrifice his ambition and tune into the TV imagery (like "your men") or that he has to sacrifice everything to keep a family "happy" like yourself?

Research your own words because everything you need to know right now is right there! And all came out just by discussing Woman...

[Kunga]

They laugh at me, all men in this household...even the cat. The absolute truth to them is rap/videos games/tv/sports/porn/food

i know they will just laugh and make fun of me.

Those rednecks are 'women'. Get it?

Good luck.

yeah..it's finally sinking in (the feminine/woman aspect that i've mistaken for WOMAN as an ad-hominen ......i've been reading this morning... Diebert dear....(The Complete Idiot's Guide to Philosophy)....i came back here to retort on this :

This is in regard to the WOMAN essay :


......"peoples personalities come into play. Some people like to fool other people, either for the fun of it or to take advantage of them. Thus, someone may use slippery words and mistaken assumptions for the sole purpose of deceiving someone else . This is also why logic works best when people are left out of it and it is applied only to mathematics."(from THE COMPLETE IDIOT'S GUIDE TO PHILOSOPHY) PG.18


So Quinns' analogy of using WOMAN and the feminine interchangeably...not literally meaning WOMAN like i read it to be....does change everything i misunderstood.....but it is still confusing if read from that angle....why does he regard the feminine as lower than masculine in the first place?

Ok...leave me alone now...gotta get back to my IDIOT book....



and Sue...bless you for defending the men ! It's true....i don't understand it...but you're right about all you've said ! I absolutely hate sports (except surfing,skateboarding/snowboarding)... but yeah..it keeps them busy and out of trouble and it's better than war. God bless sports and men. i have a lot to learn.......i'm sure more than i'll ever realize...._/\_

[Kunga]

They laugh at me, all men in this household...even the cat. The absolute truth to them is rap/videos games/tv/sports/porn/food

the past few years i've been obsessed with leaving & wanting to be alone.

So if I understand you correctly, you sacrifice any personal happiness and goals because you feel responsible for the happiness for the men around you who you say are mostly wasting their precious energy on rap/videos/games/tv/sports/porn/food and do not invest anything in your happiness?


THE GUY I'M WITH IS A BIG BABY....HE PLEADS WITH ME NOT TO LEAVE HIM...HE KNOWS HOW I WOULD LOVE TO...AS A BUDDHIST IT IS NOT ETHICAL TO HURT SOMEONE THAT BEGS YOU TO STAY...ALSO MY TEACHER FEELS SORRY FOR THIS MAN AND DOEN'T WANT ME TO HURT HIM BY LEAVING HIM....I KNOW IT'S SOUNDING CRAZIER BY THE MINUTE....LOL



But still you think all David Quinn needs is such a "successful" relationship to cure him of his "hate". Or do you think he has to sacrifice his ambition and tune into the TV imagery (like "your men") or that he has to sacrifice everything to keep a family "happy" like yourself?


YES....I THINK IT WOULD CURE HIM OF HIS HATE ....IF HE IS AMBITIOUS TO BE A SAGE OR ENLIGHTENED...HE HAS THE WRONG MOTIVATION...HIS MOTIVATION SHOULD BE OF HELPING OTHERS...NOT SELF AGRANDIZEMENT AND THE ADMIRATION OF OTHER MEN OR THERE APPROVAL....AMBITION IS NOT A LEXICON IN A SAGES WORLD.....LOOSE THE AMBITION TO BECOME ANYTHING



Research your own words because everything you need to know right now is right there! And all came out just by discussing Woman...

[Diebert van Rhijn]

THE GUY I'M WITH IS A BIG BABY....HE PLEADS WITH ME NOT TO LEAVE HIM...HE KNOWS HOW I WOULD LOVE TO...AS A BUDDHIST IT IS NOT ETHICAL TO HURT SOMEONE THAT BEGS YOU TO STAY...ALSO MY TEACHER FEELS SORRY FOR THIS MAN AND DOEN'T WANT ME TO HURT HIM BY LEAVING HIM....I KNOW IT'S SOUNDING CRAZIER BY THE MINUTE....LOL

Crazy people and their caps...

To me you sound like a ruthless killer, killing each and every moment your own life with a smile on your face, killing every trace of your own ambition, while keeping this baby-guy chained to you, utterly emasculated. Forget about talking about Quinn's supposed hatred. Look at the disgusting pit of codependent relationship wreckage you try to justify with meaningless justifications wrapped in holier-than-though wrongly applied Buddhist terms. Exactly the kind of stuff the WOMAN article tries to address. Be thankful for it that it's being pointed out by people with nothing to lose.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

....why does he regard the feminine as lower than masculine in the first place?

Because his aim is to break delusions and for that a strong masculine drive is essential while a feminine mindset tends to strengthen and protect delusions, sometimes instinctive, sometimes calculating but it's nature doing its thing. That's the only proper context of this particular evaluation.