Nietzsche's Nachlass

[zarathustra]

GOD IS DEAD!

nietzsche






nietzsche is dead

god

[David Quinn]

My life is posthumous

Nietzsche

[zarathustra]

yeah right...composthumous...













written by lightening for your edification

[Diebert van Rhijn]

More fragments to read and perhaps comment on:

Fragmente III (1874-76)
Heft - Frühling - Sommer 1875

194 [my translation]


Mistreat the people, push them to the limits, and that for thousands of years - and then suddenly, because of nature straying, because of a spark bolting from that terrible igniting energy, the genius springs up. - This is what history tells me. Horrible vision! Woe! I can't stand you!

Mißhandelt die Menschen, treibt sie zum Äußersten, und das durch Jahrtausende – da springt, durch eine Verirrung der Natur, durch einen abspringenden Funken der dadurch entzündeten furchtbaren Energie, auf einmal der Genius hervor. – So redet die Geschichte zu mir. Schreckliches Gesicht! Weh! Ich ertrag' dich nicht!

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Manuskripte - September 1876
Die Pflugschar 23 [my translation]


67. The second rate philosophers resolve into auxiliary thinkers and opposite thinkers, meaning those who implement according to the given blueprints a wing to an existing building (for which the virtue of a proficient builder suffices), and those, in who continuous opposing and objecting is taken to such an extreme, that they end up positioning against an existing system, a different one. All other philosophers are about-thinkers, historians of what has been thought and who has thought: those few excepted, who are standing on their own, growing by themselves and the only ones who deserve to be called 'thinker'. They think day and night and don't notice it anymore, like those who live inside a blacksmith stop hearing the noise of the anvil: as such it goes with them like with Newton (who was asked once, how he made his discovery, and he simply answered: "because I was always thinking about it.")



67. Die Philosophen zweiten Ranges zerfallen in Nebendenker und Gegendenker, das heisst in solche, welche zu einem vorhandenen Gebäude einen Seitenflügel entsprechend dem gegebenen Grundplane ausführen (wozu die Tugend tüchtiger Baumeister ausreicht), und in solche, die in fortwährendem Widerstreben und Widersprechen so weit geführt werden, daß sie zuletzt einem vorhandenen System ein anderes entgegenstellen. Alle übrigen Philosophen sind Überdenker, Historiker dessen was gedacht ist, derer die gedacht haben: jene wenigen abgerechnet, welche für sich stehen, aus sich wachsen und allein "Denker" genannt zu werden verdienen. Diese denken Tag und Nacht und merken es gar nicht mehr, wie die welche in einer Schmiede wohnen, nicht mehr den Lärm der Ambose hören: so geht es ihnen wie Newton (der einmal gefragt wurde, wie er nur zu seinen Entdeckungen gekommen sei, und der einfach erwiderte: "dadurch daß ich immer daran dachte.")

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I imagine future thinkers, in whom the European-American restlessness connects with the hundredfold acquired Asian tranquility*: such a combination will solve the riddle of this world. For the time being the contemplating free spirits have their mission: they lift up all barriers, which would block a melting down of humanity: religions, states, monarchal instincts, illusions of richness and poverty, prejudices on race and health - etc.

- Fragmente 1875-1879, Band 2, 17 [55], my translation from

Ich imaginire zukünftige Denker, in denen sich die europäisch-amerikanische Rastlosigkeit mit der hundertfach vererbten asiatischen Beschaulichkeit verbindet: eine solche Combination bringt das Welträthsel zur Lösung. Einstweilen haben die betrachtenden Freigeister ihre Mission: sie heben alle die Schranken hinweg, welche einer Verschmelzung der Menschen im Wege stehen: Religionen Staaten monarchische Instinkte Reichthums- und Armutsillusionen, Gesundheits- und Rassenvorurtheile – usw.

*) The excellency of the things acquired surpass a hundredfold those originally sought after because previously there was neither miserliness nor spite. - The Path of the Ten Beneficial Actions Sutra

[Tomas]

I imagine future thinkers, in whom the European-American restlessness connects with the hundredfold acquired Asian tranquility*: such a combination will solve the riddle of this world. For the time being the contemplating free spirits have their mission: they lift up all barriers, which would block a melting down of humanity: religions, states, monarchal instincts, illusions of richness and poverty, prejudices on race and health - etc.

Ah...yes! The Diebert of my youth here...has returned :-)

Please tell me when you first discovered Nietzsche? A little indepth...

I'd read just a tad in the junior high years, had a wonderful 7th grade English teacher who'd devote an hour per month on this fellow, He could speak 7,9 languages rather fluently, he'd originally been in the Jesuit Order but he met his life-mate and married her. Then I lost contact (by way of worldly pursuits) and didn't rediscover Nietzsche until the early 1980s. Real life then intervened again and when discovered Genius on the old website in 2001-02, here was David, Dan & Kevin referring to old Nietzsche.

Mucho gracias

[Carl G]

Me, too, Diebert. Love ya.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

That last quote was from a younger Nietzsche, portraying often more energetic, intense, far reaching views. But at the same time a vagueness and an idealism that often disappeared in later writings. It was the younger Nietzsche I first started to read: the period of On Truth and Lies in Extra-moral Sense, Human All Too Human, and The Dawn. It was the start of the nineties for me, only after leaving the subculture of [protestant-evangelical] Christian thought, theology and community behind that I was exposed to Rudolf Steiner's visions on Christ and teachings of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh on the gospel of Thomas. This encouraged me to try to develop a new vision on the old material and through Steiner and Bhagwan I found more and more powerful references to Nietzsche that struck me, turning me to his work - and getting sliced and diced in the process. How true the notion of the pen being mightier than the sword turned out to be: real shock, real pain with nowhere to hide. At the same time it was all too familiar, many of my own musings were reflected back with stunning prose.

The reason I felt immediately connected to this forum when I started reading during 2004 was a to me natural seeming connection between the best of the Gospels, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and the peak of Hindu or Buddhist writings. And it is the riddle of the world: the eye of the storm: no illusive "inner calm and joy" but true peace through a rock solid balancing act, one way, of all the ongoing bloody wars.

[Robert]

Thanks Diebert for reanimating this thread offering your translations and thoughts. Much appreciated.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

In that same spirit I've one specially for you, dejavu:

All combinations demonstrate such tremendous random character: from this follows, that every action of a person has an infinitely large influence on everything that is to come. With the same awe which he, looking back, sanctifies the whole of destiny, he has to sanctify himself. I am fate.

From: Fragment VIII (1884), 158

Den ungeheuer zufälligen Charakter aller Combinationen erweisen: daraus folgt, daß jede Handlung eines Menschen einen unbegränzt großen Einfluß hat auf alles Kommende. Dieselbe Ehrfurcht, die er, rückwärts schauend, dem ganzen Schicksal weiht, hat er sich selber mit zu weihen. Ego fatum.

[Loki]

Can you translate the translation? ;)

[Diebert van Rhijn]

The 20th century has two faces: one of decay. All the grounds, from which could spring forth souls more potent and comprehensive (unprejudiced, amoral) than ever, push weaker natures toward decay. There develops perhaps a kind of European Chinesedom, with a placid Buddhist-Christian faith, and in practise clever-epicurean, like with the Chinese: reduced people.

From Umwertungsheft Frühjahr 1884, 222 - my translation from:

Das 20te Jahrhundert hat zwei Gesichter: eines des Verfalls. Alle die Gründe, wodurch von nun an mächtigere und umfänglichere Seelen als es je gegeben hat (vorurtheilslosere, unmoralischere) entstehen könnten, wirken bei den schwächeren Naturen auf den Verfall hin. Es entsteht vielleicht eine Art von europäischem Chinesenthum, mit einem sanften buddhistisch-christlichen Glauben, und in der Praxis klug-epikureisch, wie es der Chinese ist — reduzirte Menschen. -

[paco]

...And, drip water drops...

Alas, the quotations of sevens.

[pointexter]

l prefer the quinn, rowden, solway approach to these matters.
Generally short and sweet.
Nietzsche is far too poetic and long-winded.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

That doesn't make much sense because generally the subject matter differs fundamentally - Nietzsche analyses culture, which the "qrs approach" hardly does but when they do they often quote Nietzsche :-)

From all 19th century writers, Nietzsche would be one of the least poetic and long-winded writers I know, half of his work consists of aphorisms for Christ's sake. He's extremely conscious of his words though, what they mean and might mean to those sensitive to meanings. In that sense it's related to poetry but that's even more true for Zen sayings. It's all short and bitter if you manage to drink the whole cup.

[jupiviv]

I think Weininger did a brilliant job addressing the "problem" of culture in his essay "Science and culture". I think Nietzsche tries to show off a bit too much, which is why I'm put off by most of his writings except "Zarathustra". It's a result of attaining wisdom late in his life - too many bad habits.

[pointexter]

Diebert,
Zen and it koanish poetry is more obliquely long winded that the other dead guy. Considering what its pointing to.

Cultural analysis tends to be a bit self indulgent. Culture is a perceptual prison, a bounding of thought, that locks one down in deluded attachments to illusion. Keeping master and slave co-dependently on plantation. Culture is no one's friend. Culture is the enemy. This is adequate to understand culture, notwithstanding its flavours, varieties, picking through, making and collecting the recipes. Cultural analysis that is pointed, short and sweet, has some limited utility for opening up to what's going on. To that end the qsr guys are much sharper. Otherwise, how to cook bad recipes with bad food isn't a way to eating healthy. Nietzsche gets into the psych, spiritual, self identified dynamic via the individuals relation to culture. That stuff gets a bit repetitive after a while. A short translation might be - cut the bonds, get off the plantation. Break out. Negate the false and stay off plantation.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

While I don't disagree with that, it does sound a bit dramatically nihilist. There's a lot in life and also in the every brilliant teaching you could name that will appear repetitive after a while.

The idea I'd like to introduce, however, not unlike Zarathustra's descend, is that when you are able to "cut the bonds" and break out, at some point the fruit will flow back into whatever it was that gave birth to you: your culture, your "enemy". The idea of obtaining a position permanently outside and completely cut off from "plantation" will never hold although it does have a function. This process is described not only by Nietzsche but, perhaps indeed shorter and sweeter, by many others in ways which might not always be obvious the first time around.

[pointexter]

The intention of breaking out or 'getting off plantation' is to release thought from the bonds of cultural 'prison' which are conditioned and adopted. Self imposed. One can function sanely 'on plantation' as it were (meaning play the role and follow the script), from time to time. Without buying in. Another way to put is 'in it the show, not of it.'

Where and what is the sound diebert.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

The following I was reading a few days ago and is not from Nachlass but from the Gay Science ("la gaya scienza"). It seemed interesting enough to look at the German with a translation and post it here, also since the topic came up recently elsewhere.


The Theory of Poisons.
So much needs to come together in order for any Scientific thinking to arise, and each of these necessary forces must once have been devised, exercised, and fostered separately! In their isolation, however, they very often had quite a different effect than they do at present, when they are within Scientific thought and kept in check by their mutual interaction: - they have operated as poisons; for example, the doubting impulse, the denying impulse, the waiting impulse, the collecting impulse, the disintegrating impulse. Many hecatombs of men were sacrificed before these impulses learned to understand their juxtaposition and regard themselves as functions of one organizing force in one man! And how far are we still from the point at which the artistic crafts and the practical wisdom of life shall be part of Scientific thinking, so that a higher organic system may be formed, in relation to which the scholar, the physician, the artist, and the lawgiver, as we know them at present, will seem poor antiquities!

Zur Lehre von den Giften.
Es gehört so viel zusammen, damit ein wissenschaftliches Denken entstehe: und alle diese nöthigen Kräfte haben einzeln erfunden, geübt, gepflegt werden müssen! In ihrer Vereinzelung haben sie aber sehr häufig eine ganz andere Wirkung gehabt als jetzt, wo sie innerhalb des wissenschaftlichen Denkens sich gegenseitig beschränken und in Zucht halten: - sie haben als Gifte gewirkt, zum Beispiel der anzweifelnde Trieb, der verneinende Trieb, der abwartende Trieb, der sammelnde Trieb, der auflösende Trieb. Viele Hekatomben von Menschen sind zum Opfer gebracht worden, ehe diese Triebe lernten, ihr Nebeneinander zu begreifen und sich mit einander als Funktionen Einer organisierenden Gewalt in Einem Menschen zu fühlen! Und wie ferne sind wir noch davon, daß zum wissenschaftlichen Denken sich auch noch die künstlerischen Kräfte und die praktische Weisheit des Lebens hinzufinden, daß ein höheres organisches System sich bildet, in Bezug auf welches der Gelehrte, der Arzt, der Künstler und der Gesetzgeber, so wie wir jetzt diese kennen, als dürftige Alterthümer erscheinen müßten!


Die fröhliche Wissenschaft - Drittes Buch - 113.