Compassion or Disdain?

[Ryan Rudolph]

What is the more intelligent option? Compassion meaning a sense of understanding, a sense of openness, a sense of putting yourself in people's horrible predicaments, and forgiving them for their ignorance?

Or disdain towards humanity? disdain meaning having the attitude that ignorance gets what it deserves, the attitude that the forces of causality should be harder on ignorance to whip it off the face of the planet? The attitude that many humans are slimy little reptiles that can't be trusted, and most do not deserve to breathe the same oxygen as rational philosophers who respect themselves, others, and the planet in general?

Defend your position with an arguments.

what do you think? Compassion or Disdain?

Here's a quote:

"Most man are secretly at war with themselves, a war deciding whether they like others or not"
Ryan Rudolph

[Nick]

What is the more intelligent option? Compassion meaning a sense of understanding, a sense of openness, a sense of putting yourself in people's horrible predicaments, and forgiving them for their ignorance?

One way I like to imagine what it's like to be an average human is to think about my own level of thought and consciousness just before I'm about to fall asleep. I'm not quite full asleep, but not fully awake either. In this transitional state I'm much more vulnerable to more "primitive impulses" and emotions. Things like fear and desire completely run-a-muck with my mind. It's a very deep entrenchment in samsara. I think this is what most people are going through on a day to day basis, so it's no wonder we see all this stupid bullshit happening in the world.

Or disdain towards humanity? disdain meaning having the attitude that ignorance gets what it deserves, the attitude that the forces of causality should be harder on ignorance to whip it off the face of the planet? The attitude that many humans are slimy little reptiles that can't be trusted, and most do not deserve to breathe the same oxygen as rational philosophers who respect themselves, others, and the planet in general?

I don't think this perspective on humans is necessarily disdainful. What you seem to be describing here is karma, and it's quite simply the way things work. While a certain understanding of this can bring about hateful feelings toward humans, a deeper understanding allows one to realize that people are perfect in that they are caused to be exactly the way they are. Just like anything else, it could be no other way.

Personally, I have hateful feelings toward humanity mostly when I feel them dragging me down, but much of that has to do with my own shortcomings as well. The best thing to do is perfect one's self, and the better job one does of it the less likely they are to be dragged down, and the more likely they are to raise up the people around them.

[uncledote]

Go ask Hitler

[Dan Rowden]

There's no reason why you can't have both. Compassion and disdain are not opposites nor incompatible.

[Blair]

I don't think they are compatible.

Compassion is the better option of the two, but even it is ego driven. Compassion is pity.

Care to give an example, Dan, where disdain is ok?

[Carl G]

I disdain delusions but have compassion for myself and others for having them.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Dan,

There's no reason why you can't have both. Compassion and disdain are not opposites nor incompatible.

so you're suggesting that you can be understanding of someones ignorance, but still disdain them for it? Disdain and hatred seem like close brothers, that is my point. Moreover, hatred doesn't seem all that compatible with compassion... but perhaps you can prove me wrong...

Because hatred is a form of violence, and if the mind is weak, and without self-control, it can emerge as physical aggression.

So I guess the question is can the male mind be free from violence? I.E Hatred, or is an inevitable consequence of human nature, and must we minimize its negative effects rather than trying to do away with it altogether...

[uncledote]

I don't think they are compatible.

Compassion is the better option of the two, but even it is ego driven. Compassion is pity.

Care to give an example, Dan, where disdain is ok?

Compassion for me would be more constructive, more sympathetic and more concerned for the improvement of someone's difficulties.

Not just seeing them as poor bastards and walking on...

[skipair]

HA! I feel, what, angry? Evil? Yet more free. Like the dark side of the force. Why should I give a FUCK about other people AT ALL, aside from looking out for my own best interest? What responsibility do I have to YOU?! That just because you think such and such I should give you want you want? FUCK you. I have NO responsibility to the greater good, to the future, to any of you. The greater good is what I WANT. I will die in time and none of it will matter. I feel no compassion and I will use you and your time whenever I see that I can and feel like it.

Yes, I am evil to you because there's a very good chance I don't give a shit about you. If I see something I want you'd best not get in my way. And if you're hanging from a cliff, hope that you're in my good graces if you expect to be saved. Now go ahead and get pissed because you were not able to manipulate me. That's the real reason that I'm an asshole, isn't it?

:)

[Ryan Rudolph]

Nick,

Personally, I have hateful feelings toward humanity mostly when I feel them dragging me down, but much of that has to do with my own shortcomings as well. The best thing to do is perfect one's self, and the better job one does of it the less likely they are to be dragged down, and the more likely they are to raise up the people around them.

yes, this type of hatred seems to have a useful purpose. Basically, if someone's ignorant desires clashes with your level of freedom, there is a feeling of disdain propelling you away from the situation. In this sense, it seems to have a useful function, and there is very little threat of hatred turning into violence here.

However, if one examines the species as a whole, humanity is quite content in being mediocre, blind, and ultimately self-destructive. It is like living next door to a cancer cell, and saying, "oh, that poor cancer cell, it doesn't realize how dysfunctional it is, look at it spinning around in circles, smashing into the cell walls of other cells" but in the meantime, its poisoning the body as a whole, and it may kill the body.

It seems to me that if you understand ignorance fully, one can't help but disdain it. Disdain it because of how toxic its presence is to the health of consciousness. However, the more one disdains, the closer one gets to actually hating the object of disdain. And hatred doesn't seem compatible with how compassion is typically defined.

Btw, when I think of compassion, I mean a sense of forgiveness of ignorance, a letting go, a tolerant understanding, a putting oneself into the hearts of ignorance and remembering what if felt like to be confused and in psychological conflict...

perhaps there are always cycles of compassion and disdain towards ignorance. Disdain seems to be creative in the sense that it forces a truthful reaction, and compassion seems like more of a cleansing force, a healing force, an activity to wipe the psychological slate clean.

[Dan Rowden]

et al,

What Carl, said, more or less. It's to do with levels of development but also to do with whether the terms we use convey emotional content or not. Wise compassion is an understanding of things, not a feeling (if it's a feeling then it derives from ego and is delusional). One has compassion for all things yet can desire that certain things should cease to exist. This is a natural and inevitable consequence of values and goals. So, one might say one has "disdain" for some fact of reality and intend this as an expression of an actual emotional state, which would indicate a lower level of development, or one could simply use it to indicate things that stand as the most deleterious to one's goals and values. It's just that language doesn't really have the content to denote non-egotistical usages, given it's created by egotists. It's hard to think of a non-egotistical term (or one that doesn't convey an emotional state) to express the desire or will that something should cease to exist or that you want it to disappear from the face of reality.

[jupiviv]

Both compassion and disdain would necessarily make us limit things, and therefore, both are useless for a philosopher.

Anyways, I think that compassion and disdain exist together, and cannot be separated. If we have compassion for something, then we would have to have disdain for something else.

[Rhett]

It's hard to think of a non-egotistical term (or one that doesn't convey an emotional state) to express the desire or will that something should cease to exist or that you want it to disappear from the face of reality.

Whenever we regard something as 'not good', 'wrong', 'undesirable', a 'problem', we are typically indicating we wish it to cease.

[Rhett]

Rather than think in terms of compassion or disdain, which typically invoke emotions, i think in terms of how things are, how they could best be, and how to influence them from the former to the latter.

[skipair]

It's hard to think of a non-egotistical term (or one that doesn't convey an emotional state) to express the desire or will that something should cease to exist or that you want it to disappear from the face of reality.

I'd say pragmatism with a knowledge of no inherently universal values. I guess that's how I'd define wisdom.

[uncledote]

"There is no substitute for spiritual renewal or enlightenment. It is certainly true that once you have experienced that enlightening moment of total vision about the true nature of your self, your ego loses its grip on you, and you acquire a freedom which is naturally filled with wisdom and compassion."

http://www.taoism.net/theway/ego.htm

[Is.]

I think that when one realize that all beings are born at square one - that all beings are equally ignorant and blind at birth - it just becomes fatuous to disdain people lost in ignorance. If you can see that you were once wreathed in the very same darkness as they are now, but were able to rise above it, then it is seen that it is possible for them too. And because it is possible and not impossible, I see no constructive reason to disdain. What good does it make? Does it it make your enviroment a better place to live?

But ahh, perhaps it makes you feel superior? Or perhaps it feels nice to just fall into a nihilistic chasm of indifference because you don't have the strength to face reality? Or perhaps you yourself are so lost in ignorance that you can't see that it is your own attachments that is generating that very disdain?

In short, disdain clearly is an attitude arising out of self-contraction.

That said, I really liked what Carl G shared:

I disdain delusions but have compassion for myself and others for having them.

Have you seen Tibetan art? In it, they have wrathful deities and peaceful deities.

Wrathful: http://www.buddhanet.net/images/vajrapa1.jpg
Peaceful: http://www.tibetanart.us/art/white-tara.jpg

In this sense, I believe not in egoic disdain but enlightened wrath, or compassionate wrath. In this sense, wrathful and peaceful go hand in hand, as I think Dan Rowden suggested in the beginning of this thread. Famous Mahayana/Vajrayana Buddhist teacher Trungpa wrote:

"Compassion is not so much being kind; it is being creative to wake a person up."

Western non-duality teacher Tony Parson says:

"Compassion is simply the destroyer of illusion".

So, clearly compassion doesn't mean that you run around smiling and handing out free cookies all day like an idiot. Compassion doesn't mean pity, it doesn't mean sentimentality, it doesn't mean fear. It means that you, within obvious limits, will do everything it takes to help other beings break free from their shackles of ignorance, even if this means that you must hurt the person's feelings and sense of security/certainty in the process.

In a very real sense, a bodhisattva (a compassionate being) is one who aspires towards mass murder.

[Carmel]

ublah waity anblahwno ttoooolatefukgiotoutfuk offffmoon fiuuukvjesuszb8sfuk

[Dan Rowden]

Did you eat the wrong kind of mushroom or something, Carmel?

[Carmel]

Dan is fine

but "Is" is so fullof shit as are well u no ur own sewage right??

flashyflashydwededededed1 dededded
punkin twitterrrrwer
no...ur bein fukkkkkedfight back..

[Dan Rowden]

Just so you know, anymore posts like that and you're on GF vacation.

[yana]

Compassion with a pinch of disdain. Being a misanthropical genius is fruitless. Been there, done that as you americans like to say.